S3Drive - general

Alright, gotcha, I guess I'll check it out from time to time to see how the rclone stuff comes along. I don't really use S3 which I guess I should've paid more attention to the name of the app itself lol It's just I saw a couple posts about this on rclone threads on Reddit and I saw rclone mentioned quite a bbit on the website so I guess my dumb monkey brain just automatically assumed it's a dedicated rclone client

pizzabed

Alright, gotcha, I guess I'll check it out from time to time to see how the rclone stuff comes along. I don't really use S3 which I guess I should've paid more attention to the name of the app itself lol It's just I saw a couple posts about this on rclone threads on Reddit and I saw rclone mentioned quite a bbit on the website so I guess my dumb monkey brain just automatically assumed it's a dedicated rclone client

Fair enough, speaking of Rclone, are there any specific back-ends you are mostly interested about?

Nothing in particular really, I use a bunch of em, Google Drive, Box, OneDrive, OneDrive (Sharepoint), Mega I was just looking for a client that is able to show quick thumbnails for images and videos without grinding to a halt on large files because that is what happens when I mount a remote as a drive and view the thumbnails

8:14 AM

Especially for large video files

8:15 AM

While Windows Explorer is trying to generate a thumbnail for it, it grinds to a halt until the video finishes downloading completely which is also not ideal since the whole point of using rclone mount is to save on disk space

pizzabed

Nothing in particular really, I use a bunch of em, Google Drive, Box, OneDrive, OneDrive (Sharepoint), Mega I was just looking for a client that is able to show quick thumbnails for images and videos without grinding to a halt on large files because that is what happens when I mount a remote as a drive and view the thumbnails

Got it, thanks. We'll keep that in mind, so we can implement efficient thumbnails for images/videos including encrypted resources. That work is partially there for S3 back-ends, but still requires some improvements (encrypted videos aren't supported and thumbnail sizes could be dynamic + stored as an object on the back-end, so other clients can retrieve it). Speaking of Rclone, streaming interface is the first thing we will have to build (edited)

1

Would E2E encryption be synthetic for every my devices when I login

mix9311

Would E2E encryption be synthetic for every my devices when I login

I guess something was lost in translation. E2E encryption is managed separately on each your device, we don't manage your encryption password. That detail stays solely at your discretion.

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Shen joined the server. 5/20/2024 6:44 AM

@Tom Hello! Question about using it on Android. When setting up synchronization of individual folders, is it possible to make sure that they are synchronized only if Wifi is available? Mobile traffic is much more expensive and I would like to synchronize files only within the Wi-Fi coverage area (edited)

Nitrotoluol

@Tom Hello! Question about using it on Android. When setting up synchronization of individual folders, is it possible to make sure that they are synchronized only if Wifi is available? Mobile traffic is much more expensive and I would like to synchronize files only within the Wi-Fi coverage area (edited)

Hi, it's not yet possible, but it's on our feature list: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/add-sync-constraints-wifi-battery-charger

Add sync constraints (wifi, battery, charger) | Feature Requests | ...

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Hi Tom. I changed s3 provider recently and tried to login but received the following error: "Login: XmlTagException: Expected </hr>, but found </body>" The provider I currently using is hcm.s3storage.vn. Do you know what might cause it?

Deleted User

Hi Tom. I changed s3 provider recently and tried to login but received the following error: "Login: XmlTagException: Expected </hr>, but found </body>" The provider I currently using is hcm.s3storage.vn. Do you know what might cause it?

It's probably this endpoint responded with HTML instead of valid S3 XML. By any chance do you have any test credentials (feel free to PM me) that I could use? I would be happy to try it out and let you know in more detail. Thanks !

1

Deleted User

Hi Tom. I changed s3 provider recently and tried to login but received the following error: "Login: XmlTagException: Expected </hr>, but found </body>" The provider I currently using is hcm.s3storage.vn. Do you know what might cause it?

Right, so I've got something. In order to validate whether credentials are fine we perform a read check on a some chosen non-existing key. S3 compliant provider shall return error code: NoSuchKey using XML format. hcm.s3storage.vn on the other hand returns invalid error code (500 instead of 4xx) and invalid format, HTML instead of XML:

Server: HyperCoreS3

<html>
<head><title>500 Internal Server Error</title></head>
<body>
<center><h1>500 Internal Server Error</h1></center>
<hr><center>openresty/1.15.8.3</center>
</body>
</html>

Once I've skipped the S3Drive read check (not possible currently from the app itself) I've actually managed to run couple actions, that is, list, copy/rename, delete. ... so there are two non-exclusive solutions. 1. Contact: hcm.s3storage.vn so they can fix the issue with their S3 API and make it compliant with the standard. 2. S3Drive to allow user to skip the read check <--- this is something we would be willing to allow, but it would take use a while, as we're busy with other work at the moment.

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9:35 PM

Every time I try to upload a large file, it errors?

9:35 PM

I have nothing else open at all

Tom

Right, so I've got something. In order to validate whether credentials are fine we perform a read check on a some chosen non-existing key. S3 compliant provider shall return error code: NoSuchKey using XML format. hcm.s3storage.vn on the other hand returns invalid error code (500 instead of 4xx) and invalid format, HTML instead of XML:

Server: HyperCoreS3

<html>
<head><title>500 Internal Server Error</title></head>
<body>
<center><h1>500 Internal Server Error</h1></center>
<hr><center>openresty/1.15.8.3</center>
</body>
</html>

Once I've skipped the S3Drive read check (not possible currently from the app itself) I've actually managed to run couple actions, that is, list, copy/rename, delete. ... so there are two non-exclusive solutions. 1. Contact: hcm.s3storage.vn so they can fix the issue with their S3 API and make it compliant with the standard. 2. S3Drive to allow user to skip the read check <--- this is something we would be willing to allow, but it would take use a while, as we're busy with other work at the moment.

Thank you for your great support. I contacted my provider and they were able to provide the fix. Now I can login normally using S3Drive.

2

Giles joined the server. 5/26/2024 11:53 AM

Deleted User joined the server. 5/26/2024 12:01 PM

ElGato joined the server. 5/26/2024 12:02 PM

CubityFirst

Every time I try to upload a large file, it errors?

What's your OS? How do you upload these files, is it + icon file upload, folder upload drag&drop upload or anything else? Do you happen to know at what threshold (file size) problem starts? Do you use E2E encryption? Do you use multipart uploads (configurable in the settings)? Does the transfer of these files start at all? Before it fails, does the progress halt or it keeps going until it fails eventually? Do you have any antivirus software on your machine? Do you have any non-standard firewall on your network or your traffic is routed through some proxy? Finally, what's your broadband type and speed? If you don't mind feel free to PM me what's your country (if you think there maybe some relevance or you've faced similar issue in the past for other endpoints / software) I would appreciate if you could give us some of these details as it may help us to trace down the problem. Thanks ! (edited)

Tom

What's your OS? How do you upload these files, is it + icon file upload, folder upload drag&drop upload or anything else? Do you happen to know at what threshold (file size) problem starts? Do you use E2E encryption? Do you use multipart uploads (configurable in the settings)? Does the transfer of these files start at all? Before it fails, does the progress halt or it keeps going until it fails eventually? Do you have any antivirus software on your machine? Do you have any non-standard firewall on your network or your traffic is routed through some proxy? Finally, what's your broadband type and speed? If you don't mind feel free to PM me what's your country (if you think there maybe some relevance or you've faced similar issue in the past for other endpoints / software) I would appreciate if you could give us some of these details as it may help us to trace down the problem. Thanks ! (edited)

Thanks for the questions. I'll check and answer all of these in the morning

rrawb joined the server. 5/27/2024 2:13 AM

rrawb

Click to see original message

@rrawb Hi there !

Tom

What's your OS? How do you upload these files, is it + icon file upload, folder upload drag&drop upload or anything else? Do you happen to know at what threshold (file size) problem starts? Do you use E2E encryption? Do you use multipart uploads (configurable in the settings)? Does the transfer of these files start at all? Before it fails, does the progress halt or it keeps going until it fails eventually? Do you have any antivirus software on your machine? Do you have any non-standard firewall on your network or your traffic is routed through some proxy? Finally, what's your broadband type and speed? If you don't mind feel free to PM me what's your country (if you think there maybe some relevance or you've faced similar issue in the past for other endpoints / software) I would appreciate if you could give us some of these details as it may help us to trace down the problem. Thanks ! (edited)

Multipart Upload might have fixed this

11:49 AM

I didn't know that it would be off by default

CubityFirst

I didn't know that it would be off by default

It's off by default, because even though it improves upload resilience it usually slows down the overall speed because chunk upload is sequential at the moment. (edited)

Tom

It's off by default, because even though it improves upload resilience it usually slows down the overall speed because chunk upload is sequential at the moment. (edited)

Is there any chance to have a custom limit / different limit as to where multipart engages as opposed to not?

11:54 AM

R2 requires files above 4.995GiB to be uploaded as multi-part files, but anything below that doesn't matter

11:55 AM

I can see that S3 Drive deals with it as any file >100MB

CubityFirst

Is there any chance to have a custom limit / different limit as to where multipart engages as opposed to not?

I've added a feature reuqest: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/multipart-threshold-configuration There will be 2 configurable params. Can't give any ETA, but it's not a big deal, so likely within a month or two it should land in a production release. (edited)

2

1

Thanks Tom, appreciate it

@Tom Can I install on my iPhone and share app so Family can benefit using S3Drive & Media Backup? Is there any guidance on setting up please or just use same Key and endpoint for my S3 Bucket? Thank you

Giles

@Tom Can I install on my iPhone and share app so Family can benefit using S3Drive & Media Backup? Is there any guidance on setting up please or just use same Key and endpoint for my S3 Bucket? Thank you

Hi, Thanks for your message. It all depends. In principle you would generate a separate API key for each family member regardless if it points to the same bucket or a different one. Such approach is usually better from a security point of view. Question is if you would like to have a single bucket available to each family member, separate buckets or some combination of shared and separate buckets. We plan to introduce family plans and more granular sharing / folder exchange between separate accounts, so by default information is private and you as a user / family member decide what folder would you like to share (for read or write or both)... however it's a work in progress.

Giles

@Tom Can I install on my iPhone and share app so Family can benefit using S3Drive & Media Backup? Is there any guidance on setting up please or just use same Key and endpoint for my S3 Bucket? Thank you

Speaking of media backup setup, we don't have a guide as such, but it shouldn't be that hard. Initially you'll need to give permission to your media files (either all or some subset you can select), then you'd need to select albums that S3Drive would then upload. You might want tweak the upload path in the settings (by default it uploads to the Automatic Uploads/<phoneModel>) if by any chance you've set up same bucket for photo for all family members, you might want to double check upload path so there is no "name collision" if for instance you use two exactly same iPhone models. (edited)

Giles

@Tom Can I install on my iPhone and share app so Family can benefit using S3Drive & Media Backup? Is there any guidance on setting up please or just use same Key and endpoint for my S3 Bucket? Thank you

If you have any specific problem with setting things up or more of a general question, I am happy to help out ! (edited)

Tom

Hi, Thanks for your message. It all depends. In principle you would generate a separate API key for each family member regardless if it points to the same bucket or a different one. Such approach is usually better from a security point of view. Question is if you would like to have a single bucket available to each family member, separate buckets or some combination of shared and separate buckets. We plan to introduce family plans and more granular sharing / folder exchange between separate accounts, so by default information is private and you as a user / family member decide what folder would you like to share (for read or write or both)... however it's a work in progress.

Thank you Tom. We have one shared bucket with multiple folders we can all access which is fine. I can create individual API Keys if that is best practice. I am trying to keep it simple for the family and myself!

Tom

Speaking of media backup setup, we don't have a guide as such, but it shouldn't be that hard. Initially you'll need to give permission to your media files (either all or some subset you can select), then you'd need to select albums that S3Drive would then upload. You might want tweak the upload path in the settings (by default it uploads to the Automatic Uploads/<phoneModel>) if by any chance you've set up same bucket for photo for all family members, you might want to double check upload path so there is no "name collision" if for instance you use two exactly same iPhone models. (edited)

I’m looking to set up S3Drive with Media Backup for each family member. I have seen how this works from my device with the creation of folders, ‘Automatic Upload’ and then device model name, which I can rename. The issue is that having downloaded the app on my daughters mobile it is not starting the upload, even though full access has been given to the photo library and it is showing the count of photos (All) but it does not start uploading.

Tom

If you have any specific problem with setting things up or more of a general question, I am happy to help out ! (edited)

I have paid for the app for a month to test that this can work, as I think it should, ie in the background. I understood if I have paid for the app then via Apple family, my daughter would be able to download and benefit from the background upload but need to solve the initial issue of it not uploading any Media despite tapping ‘Start Upload’. Thank you for your help.

Giles

I have paid for the app for a month to test that this can work, as I think it should, ie in the background. I understood if I have paid for the app then via Apple family, my daughter would be able to download and benefit from the background upload but need to solve the initial issue of it not uploading any Media despite tapping ‘Start Upload’. Thank you for your help.

I do appreciate making a purchase and supporting the project. I assume that you've: "Backup when app starts" toggled on? In such case backup would start when app starts (or if app gets resumed), but it won't start automatically when apps run already (Start backup button needs to be tapped manually).

1

Giles

I have paid for the app for a month to test that this can work, as I think it should, ie in the background. I understood if I have paid for the app then via Apple family, my daughter would be able to download and benefit from the background upload but need to solve the initial issue of it not uploading any Media despite tapping ‘Start Upload’. Thank you for your help.

Speaking of background mode, it's limited to default what iOS provides. Usually background backup would start if device is connected to charger and kept overnight. The issue is that background backup has limited execution time, so if you have plenty assets to backup it would certainly have to be executed multiple times in order for your assets to be fully uploaded. It might be more reliable to run the initial sync (foreground) and then rely on background backup to periodically sync the difference. (edited)

Tom

Speaking of background mode, it's limited to default what iOS provides. Usually background backup would start if device is connected to charger and kept overnight. The issue is that background backup has limited execution time, so if you have plenty assets to backup it would certainly have to be executed multiple times in order for your assets to be fully uploaded. It might be more reliable to run the initial sync (foreground) and then rely on background backup to periodically sync the difference. (edited)

Great. Understand re iOS background policy. Will try initial sync first then switch as you have explained. Thank you

Tom

Speaking of background mode, it's limited to default what iOS provides. Usually background backup would start if device is connected to charger and kept overnight. The issue is that background backup has limited execution time, so if you have plenty assets to backup it would certainly have to be executed multiple times in order for your assets to be fully uploaded. It might be more reliable to run the initial sync (foreground) and then rely on background backup to periodically sync the difference. (edited)

For clarity, once my daughter’s media has sync’d as you have explained, should the app on her iPhone allow Background backup to work, as I have purchased the app and it is shared via the Apple Family sharing option or not and we therefore need to purchase per iPhone? Thank you.

Uncle Remus joined the server. 5/27/2024 7:24 PM

Uncle Remus

Click to see original message

Giles

Great. Understand re iOS background policy. Will try initial sync first then switch as you have explained. Thank you

Just for the clarity, you would normally enable background backup, but you can (and probably should) leave the "Start sync when app starts" setting enabled.

1

Giles

For clarity, once my daughter’s media has sync’d as you have explained, should the app on her iPhone allow Background backup to work, as I have purchased the app and it is shared via the Apple Family sharing option or not and we therefore need to purchase per iPhone? Thank you.

We haven't enabled Apple Family sharing, since it poses couple hard to solve challenges once we want to expand sharing experience to our other platforms (Android, PC etc.). We plan to implement family plans using our in-house billing and they will be available on all platforms (not just Apple) but it's not yet ready, so in principle at the moment you would need a separate license. The alternative would be to create an account on our website: https://s3drive.app/faq?q=website_vs_inapp and based on your existing I could enable Ultimate plan on it (feel free to DM me your e-mail, so I can enable the Ultimate monthly on it), then using such account you could login to S3Drive on your device and other family member only to obtain the Ultimate license. As such every user should use their own personal account (security wise mostly), but for license purposes it would work just fine... and we don't make any trouble if license is reused within family especially when we don't have any systematic way of handling this just yet.

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Setting up CORS on mobile phone using BackBlaze (Already setup CORS here) states "Failed: entitled header"

Is there a step I'm missing?

toddletoon joined the server. 5/30/2024 5:44 AM

InfiniteAds559

Is there a step I'm missing?

Hi, please find our Backblaze specific guide: https://docs.s3drive.app/setup/bucket/#set-up-an-api-key There is a prompt/warning stating that in order to set up CORS, the API key requires access to "All" buckets. It's some quirk on the Backblaze side, but unfortunately that's how it works at the moment. (edited)

jt0103 joined the server. 5/30/2024 7:39 PM

Tom

Hi, please find our Backblaze specific guide: https://docs.s3drive.app/setup/bucket/#set-up-an-api-key There is a prompt/warning stating that in order to set up CORS, the API key requires access to "All" buckets. It's some quirk on the Backblaze side, but unfortunately that's how it works at the moment. (edited)

Yea, I've followed the guide and I'm still getting the same error. I also made a test-bucket and a new app key with require access to "All" per the image below and still the same. Using Brave Browser if that makes a difference. (edited)

@InfiniteAds559 Are you trying to "Set up CORS" using desktop, mobile or web S3Drive client? I've did a quick test where I've created new API key with access to all buckets then created a new bucket and then used: "Set up CORS" in the settings menu which worked well. I've then set back CORS to default and tried again on Web, the flow is different with CORS prompt appearing at the bottom during login, but nevertheless it worked just fine. Speaking of CORS setup directly from the Backblaze page, I honestly can say I've never made it work regardless of chosen option, so I can't assist you on that. Please find the attached screenshots. Do you still get: "not entitled" error with the newly generated API key? (edited)

6:47 AM

Tom

@InfiniteAds559 Are you trying to "Set up CORS" using desktop, mobile or web S3Drive client? I've did a quick test where I've created new API key with access to all buckets then created a new bucket and then used: "Set up CORS" in the settings menu which worked well. I've then set back CORS to default and tried again on Web, the flow is different with CORS prompt appearing at the bottom during login, but nevertheless it worked just fine. Speaking of CORS setup directly from the Backblaze page, I honestly can say I've never made it work regardless of chosen option, so I can't assist you on that. Please find the attached screenshots. Do you still get: "not entitled" error with the newly generated API key? (edited)

So it seems that the "CORS Rules" was messing up with the set up since I enabled share everything in this bucket. And since the instructions said to set up CORS rules in the admin panel meant literally "CORS Rules" tab. It's working now. Meanwhile, I'm testing the desktop app but it takes a while to load (I had to force quit the app multiple times)

mattyward2k joined the server. 6/1/2024 11:41 AM

InfiniteAds559

So it seems that the "CORS Rules" was messing up with the set up since I enabled share everything in this bucket. And since the instructions said to set up CORS rules in the admin panel meant literally "CORS Rules" tab. It's working now. Meanwhile, I'm testing the desktop app but it takes a while to load (I had to force quit the app multiple times)

How it's going with the desktop app? Does it still not load properly? If you have some more details, please send us some more details in the #support channel, so we can have a look. Thanks

I have to use cyberduck to upload files more than 1GB to avoid OS errors every time instead of S3Drive

5:38 PM

I feel so sad to do that.

5:40 PM

E2E encryption is much more different from SSE-S3(AES-256) or SSE-KMS method. I had to switch back and forth.. (edited)

5:41 PM

OS error: The remote host has forced the closure of an existing connection. (edited)

Yes uploaded success in cyberduck.

I'm having a difficulty uploading >100MB files in both Android & desktop. "Invalid argument. Invalid array length"

mix9311

I have to use cyberduck to upload files more than 1GB to avoid OS errors every time instead of S3Drive

Bear with us, we're in the process of implementing "Upload retry on error", but before we roll it out we really want to make sure that any other obstacles are resolved first to avoid pointless repeated upload and wasting resources. Does the upload fail immediately or at some point e..g on 1/3 progress?

mix9311

E2E encryption is much more different from SSE-S3(AES-256) or SSE-KMS method. I had to switch back and forth.. (edited)

Do you have any issue with E2E encryption? SSE-S3(AES-256) or SSE-KMS are Server Side Encryptions managed by AWS. It's transparent to the user and encryption happens on the AWS server. It's better than nothing, but it ranks pretty low from a privacy point of view, since S3 provider can see file contents at their discretion.

InfiniteAds559

I'm having a difficulty uploading >100MB files in both Android & desktop. "Invalid argument. Invalid array length"

Does it refer to: "Upload files" functionality? Can you try changing Multipart (either disable or enable) in the settings and see if it helps?

Tom

Bear with us, we're in the process of implementing "Upload retry on error", but before we roll it out we really want to make sure that any other obstacles are resolved first to avoid pointless repeated upload and wasting resources. Does the upload fail immediately or at some point e..g on 1/3 progress?

no just at the beginning

Tom

Does it refer to: "Upload files" functionality? Can you try changing Multipart (either disable or enable) in the settings and see if it helps?

Disable and enable tires lot of times

7:02 PM

no helps to backblaze

Tom

Do you have any issue with E2E encryption? SSE-S3(AES-256) or SSE-KMS are Server Side Encryptions managed by AWS. It's transparent to the user and encryption happens on the AWS server. It's better than nothing, but it ranks pretty low from a privacy point of view, since S3 provider can see file contents at their discretion.

No ，just because your s3drive cannot upload size more than 1GB on backblaze ，So I have to upload using cyberduck with SSE-S3 encryption ，In this case my files are being seen and I can't help it because of your upload errors all the time.

mix9311

No ，just because your s3drive cannot upload size more than 1GB on backblaze ，So I have to upload using cyberduck with SSE-S3 encryption ，In this case my files are being seen and I can't help it because of your upload errors all the time.

I understand, do you have multipart upload enabled or disabled?

I'd just opened backblaze SSE-B2 also cyberduck SSE-S3 encryption there when uploading ，what would happen to my files ？？

7:07 PM

disabled current time

7:11 PM

when enabled multipart upload error like this: timeoutException after 0:00:20.000000:Future not completed....

7:11 PM

Whatever it's on or off，failed all the time.

7:15 PM

When using Server-Side Encryption with Amazon S3-Managed Keys (SSE-S3), Amazon S3 encrypts your data as it writes it to disks in their data centers and decrypts it for you when you access it. Amazon S3 manages the encryption keys and uses one of the strongest block ciphers available, 256-bit Advanced Encryption Standard (AES-256)1. However, it’s important to note that while SSE-S3 provides a high level of security by encrypting the data at rest, the S3 service itself can access the encrypted files. This is because the encryption and decryption are handled server-side by Amazon S3. For instance, when you request an object, Amazon S3 decrypts the object before returning it to you2. So, while others cannot see your files without proper authentication and authorization, the S3 service, as the provider, can technically access the encrypted files, although AWS has strict policies and controls in place to protect customer data3. If you require a higher level of control over the encryption keys, you might consider using Server-Side Encryption with AWS Key Management Service (SSE-KMS) or Server-Side Encryption with Customer-Provided Keys (SSE-C), which provide different levels of control and audit capability2.

7:16 PM

So SSE-KMS is more safe anyway？I did not see SSE-C on cyberduck options

Tom

Does it refer to: "Upload files" functionality? Can you try changing Multipart (either disable or enable) in the settings and see if it helps?

I've tried both, but still the same error. I kept retrying and one file uploaded successfully, but this one 300MB file won't. Moreover, even select photos won't upload

mix9311

So SSE-KMS is more safe anyway？I did not see SSE-C on cyberduck options

Both SSE-KMS or SSE-C are server side encryption methods. I wouldn't use SSE-C, why bother manging key and risk losing it if there isn't apparent security benefit, since you're sending key (leaking security context) to the S3 provider anyway.

what's a Time information on backblaze settings:

Another thing is I use a vpn+firewall, and it often disconnects my vpn when browsing S3drive. I'm looking at the logs and there aren't any block connections

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mix9311

what's a Time information on backblaze settings:

You can find some information in their docs: https://www.backblaze.com/apidocs/b2-update-bucket -> bucketInfo and https://www.backblaze.com/docs/cloud-storage-buckets -> Bucket Information

You can add key/value pairs as custom information associated with the bucket. [...] You can also set the cache-control policy for buckets. For example, if you want the client to cache files for five minutes, you add a name/value pair such as "Cache-Control" : "max-age=600"

(edited)

anthony joined the server. 6/3/2024 7:06 PM

Tom

You can find some information in their docs: https://www.backblaze.com/apidocs/b2-update-bucket -> bucketInfo and https://www.backblaze.com/docs/cloud-storage-buckets -> Bucket Information

You can add key/value pairs as custom information associated with the bucket. [...] You can also set the cache-control policy for buckets. For example, if you want the client to cache files for five minutes, you add a name/value pair such as "Cache-Control" : "max-age=600"

(edited)

Does max age larger better ？？