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S3Drive
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Hello guys and welcome to our Discord channel. In case you have any questions, problems, ideas or would like to simply talk about the app, S3, syncing and all that stuff... we would love to hear from you. πŸš€
sirlegar joined the server. 01/30/2023 4:41 PM
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sirlegar
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Hi there, how do you feel being the first to join? πŸ™‚
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It was a good idea to create a discord channel. Interactivity was very limited. This will improve the feedback loop
16:42
Hahah feels good πŸ™‚
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I need to get my community management skills up to speed, in the meantime let's give a Discord channel a try and see how it goes. I hope actually to get more feedback here. Well, thanks for joining !
πŸš€ 1
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Today we've released support for video thumbnails and enlarged thumbnail, so it uses up the full square space. It's already available on Android, on iOS is pending release and will be available later today / tomorrow. How do you like it? (edited)
barrrrtek joined the server. 01/30/2023 7:35 PM
H10ISBFYAKE91 joined the server. 02/05/2023 7:52 PM
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Welcome to our channel @barrrrtek and @H10ISBFYAKE91 !
myfrogger joined the server. 02/13/2023 7:57 AM
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Hi, looks like a cool project. I can't seem to run it on windows because I get the error that files are missing. Any thoughts? The code execution cannot proceed because MSVCP140.dll was not found. repeated error for VCRUNTIME140.dll & VCRUNTIME140_1.dll
08:00
Also, what is the recommended installation directory? It seems to be installing into %APPDATA% but I tried it in Program Files also. Both gave me the above errors.
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Hi, @myfrogger thanks for letting us know about the issue. It seems that Visual C++ Redistributable package may be missing in your system: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=48145 What Windows version are you running exactly? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-version-of-windows-operating-system-am-i-running-628bec99-476a-2c13-5296-9dd081cdd808 There is no preference as where you install the package. We're using default settings of: "Inno Setup", but in principle you can install it wherever you want. Finally, sorry for this issue, we're Linux users ourselves and we're working on improving tests and setup instructions on different desktop platforms, Windows included. (edited)
The Visual C++ Redistributable Packages install run-time components that are required to run C++ applications built using Visual Studio 2015.
Learn how to find which version of Windows operating system your PC is running and device specifications.
09:26
@myfrogger Wait, did you actually use our "exe" installer or installed via Microsoft Store?
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s3drive
Hi, @myfrogger thanks for letting us know about the issue. It seems that Visual C++ Redistributable package may be missing in your system: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=48145 What Windows version are you running exactly? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-version-of-windows-operating-system-am-i-running-628bec99-476a-2c13-5296-9dd081cdd808 There is no preference as where you install the package. We're using default settings of: "Inno Setup", but in principle you can install it wherever you want. Finally, sorry for this issue, we're Linux users ourselves and we're working on improving tests and setup instructions on different desktop platforms, Windows included. (edited)
I used the exe installer as I hate the microsoft store. I'll try downloading Visual C++ now. I'm using Windows 10 Pro 22H2 (edited)
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No error messages now but when it loads I only get a black window
10:19
I've uninstalled, reinstalled, and restarted
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myfrogger
No error messages now but when it loads I only get a black window
Right, I've tried it on a fresh Win install and I also get a black screen. We're working on the fix and will let you know hopefully later today. Actually we've only reproduced it in a virtual environment and can't reproduce this on a physical environment. Black screen so far appears to be an issue with the GPU / hardware acceleration / DirectX version (at least 11 is required). (edited)
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myfrogger
No error messages now but when it loads I only get a black window
May I ask what's your graphic card model? Is it dedicated or perhaps integrated within your CPU / motherboard?
kartz joined the server. 02/13/2023 12:16 PM
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It's integrated graphics
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myfrogger
It's integrated graphics
Thanks that helps, do you perhaps have DirectX (at least 11) installed?
12:22
It can be checked typing: dxdiag in the search bar.
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Actually I'm also testing your software in a virtual environment using Oracle VirtualBox so maybe that's the issue
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Right, so in fact that's an issue with VirtualBox, we're using latest 7.0.4 and it doesn't work. It works fine on VMWare Workstation though. (edited)
12:25
App does require 3D acceleration due to technology that we're using (Flutter), perhaps it's possible to start it in a software acceleration mode only, but we haven't explored that yet. (edited)
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Gotcha. I'll try to test this soon on a physical computer. It doesn't seem to have any bloatware installed so I should be safe. It's incredibly difficult to find good backup and sync software if you want end-to-end encryption and using a S3 based cloud
12:26
This idea is very, very cool though it wasn't what I was initially searching for. Those are the best finds though πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
12:27
People upload FAR to much data to hosted clouds. I uploaded business "trade secret" data for work to dropbox for years...what a disaster that could have been! I was so ignorant
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Thanks for the good words. It keeps us motivated πŸ™‚ We're pending major release with multiple new features being added. It will also include photo backup from Android/iOS to S3. Different sync modes including two-way sync will be available ~April 2023 - https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/syncbackup-options-two-way-one-way
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That's an amazing idea. Actually I uploaded all my photos to the cloud up until recently out of ignorance also! Then I switched to Mega.io but recently scrapped the whole thing and decided to sync only to my laptop, which is then backed up in a more secure way. Photo backup is a major upgrade and very useful!!
12:31
I don't know why but I've seen on other apps it's hard to make automatic backup triggers on iOS. It seems the main way people do it is based on GPS movement. I didn't want to give apps my location. The other way I've seen recently is auto sync is triggered upon the device connected to a charger. That's better but I've seen only used on one app.
12:32
Maybe you know other ways but to my non-technical research brain, auto syncing on iOS seemed like a real obstacle for developers.
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It's quite tricky to do it reliably on iOS and so far the backup mode will work for S3Drive when you start the app (comparing to fully supported background sync on Android)... but then we will be using all available means to improve that. Thanks for the hints with triggers.
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So if you run into that problem, maybe try the sync when connected to a charger
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In fact it's quite tricky to do it reliably on Android as well due to: https://dontkillmyapp.com/
Hey Android vendors, don’t kill my app!
πŸ‘ 1
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myfrogger
So if you run into that problem, maybe try the sync when connected to a charger
It's possible that it needs to create an iOS shortcut in the "automation" section. Another iOS approved trigger might be to connect to a certain wifi
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Given that iOS ecosystem is a pretty new thing to me and our team these hints are extremely useful !
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I thought it might be. It's surprisingly hard to find solutions as a user if I don't want to trust the company also with my data. It seems most people want an all-in-one solution so who knows
12:38
I mean, who knows what most people want. I don't think I'm the usual customer and there's not enough people like me to make lots of money
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I was personally struggling to find such solution. That's actually how this project started.
πŸ”₯ 1
12:40
I actually don't like all-in-one. I prefer to choose best tools for specific case.
12:40
Most people do prefer all-in-one though as you say.
12:40
Great, I'd love to hear if you managed to install the app and whether it works all fine for you.
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I'll keep you updated in a day or two when I have more time πŸ™‚ Thanks for your help!
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Thanks for your feedback !
_shaike joined the server. 02/13/2023 7:08 PM
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Hello
19:09
Does a3 photosync supports syncing video files or just photos?
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Hi @_shaike, it supports both video and photos, however by default only photo albums upload is enabled, video albums needs to be explicitly marked for auto upload.
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Where can i gind itcon photosync s3? It shows me DCIM and WA business folders
19:37
Sorry for typos
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That's how it looks on my end. There is Movies folder.
19:40
Then I need to unhide it.
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I am talking about photosync not s3 drive
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This is PhotoSync screenshot.
19:41
Depending on the Android version these folders are named differently, but in principle rule is the same.
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Right, is that everything that you see? No more albums?
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This is what i see
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Got it
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So no videos
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I am not sure why videos are not displayed. Within a week or maximum two, there will be Early March we shall deliver photo & video module (with a backup and background mode) to S3Drive with more flexible album management. This is where our focus is currently. BTW. What's your phone model / Android version? (edited)
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Fold 3 with android 13 oneui 5 December 2022
19:48
That's will be grear
19:48
Great
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Thanks for letting me know. I need to say that we haven't tested PhotoSync with Android 13 enough, instead we worked hard on S3Drive. If you don't mind waiting little bit I would recommend trying it once the backup module is released. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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That's fine i really appreciate your work
19:52
So i should use s3 drive meanwhile?
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It can't automatically backup your media, so it's not a replacement for PhotoSync just yet... but in general if you want to interact with S3 then S3Drive is the way to go.
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Ok will do acctually i just want to clear some space. But since i had too many files on found that s3drive couldnt handle it
19:55
By the way does s3 drive will supported multiple buckets available?
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Given that we released first version in December, there is plenty of work ahead of us and lots of improvements deployed weekly.
19:56
Multiple buckets support will come in a next earliest release, which is scheduled mid this week. (edited)
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Great thanks for the great work
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Nice
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Thanks for the good words. It's been crazy past few months, but comments like this make my day and give me motivation to push hard on this πŸ™‚ (edited)
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_shaike
Ok will do acctually i just want to clear some space. But since i had too many files on found that s3drive couldnt handle it
@_shaike You did say that S3Drive couldn't handle lots of files. There is a known issue if too many files are being downloaded / uploaded simultaneously (there is no hard limit which might make app crash), but as such the front-end should handle buckets with lots of files. What problems you were facing in more detail if I can ask? (edited)
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I have tried to upload about 6000 files and it just crashed
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_shaike
I have tried to upload about 6000 files and it just crashed
I see, right, it won't work just yet, but we're working on this as one of the high priority items with ETA end of February / early March. Once it's there we will then be able to support folder upload which will come next.
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Good to hear
20:05
Good luck
πŸ‘ 1
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Any idea why Backblaze is refusing my connection?
00:55
As an aside, it would be very helpful if there was a button to click to "list buckets" for me to select. Is my bucket formatted properly? This doesn't seem to be the issue though because even if I enter the wrong credentials, I still can't seem to connect to the server.
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OOPS. It appears I need to enter https:// But what's interesting is that the computer was actually sending network traffic. Maybe it's defaulting to HTTP? So backblaze was rejecting all HTTP traffic but accepted HTTPS? (edited)
02:02
A significant downside is that the file and folder names are not encrypted 😦
02:03
This is especially important to me because I like to use very descriptive file names.
02:06
Next, when I try to create a share link, I cannot uncheck this box nor edit the date/time for link expiry. Do I need to make my S3 bucket public by chance? (edited)
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Even with the bucket set to public the link doesn't work for me (edited)
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Hi @myfrogger, you're right if no scheme (https/http) was provided it defaulted to HTTP. We're going to make more explicit. Likely the endpoint without scheme will default to https, where as IP addr will default to http. Filename encryption is on our Roadmap and we have a working prototype already. https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/filenamefilepath-encryption (ETA ~April 2023). We're making further research to understand standards or well established implementation in that area, so we can stay compatible. The sharing functionality is based on S3 presign URLs, their limitation is that the signature can't be valid longer than 7 days, so every 7 days new link would have to be generated. We're researching how to overcome this limitation. For instance we could combine this with a link shortener, so there is single link that doesn't change, but under the hood we would regenerate the destination link as needed. The encrypted share link has the master key at the end after the # character and looks like this: https://s3.us-west-004.backblazeb2.com/my-s3drive/.aashare/hsnwye5bno3p/index.html?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=004060aad6064900000000044%2F20230214%2Fus-west-004%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20230214T095014Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=abdcd875e2106ee54c6a1d1851617c7e694e121464c5ca9023526ce2836be595#GKSGYX4HGNAd4nTcXb/GIA== What it does it tries to load the encrypted asset as usual, but it's not aware per se if an asset is encrypted. In the background JavaScript tries to fetch the asset and replaces the one on the screen with decrypted version. It looks like it has failed on your side. Can you go to the console (right-click -> inspect element) to see if there is anything abnormal (that is error in the Console or different than 200 status code in any of the network requests).
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The current sharing functionality is pretty basic version initially introduced in PhotoSync. We actually plan to integrate it with our web client, so when you share a link, it would open normally inside the app: https://web.s3drive.app It's not on our roadmap yet, we need to build some spec first. Realistically we won't be able to build it earlier than June/July. Speaking of your file / image sharing issue. Does it work unencrypted? What size is it? Bucket doesn't need to be public (it shouldn't be). The idea of presigned sharing is that you choose which resource to share from a private bucket. I would be glad to assist you on any other issues. As you see, it's all pretty early stage, but we're catching up fast. Thanks for your feedback and an idea with listing buckets button. Noted and added to our improvement items. (edited)
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You guys are awesome!! Thanks for all your hard work. I do see that you catch up very quickly πŸ™‚ 1. I'm happy to hear that folder name and file name is on the near roadmap for completion. Usability problem solved πŸ™‚ 2. The S3 presign URL concept is interesting. Can a link be done for a time period shorter than a week? I assume the user would need to have their program opened and some kind of timer to check if any links need to be signed again. Then the shortened link would need to be updated. It's a good idea actually but would want to make sure it's done in a trustless or trust minimized way. Also be careful deploying resources that you have to pay for as then you'd have ongoing costs. It depends what your monetization plan is long term I guess. 3. If the link is presigned, am I right to assume that there is no ability to revoke the sharing? 4. I'm actually not familiar. What is PhotoSync? 5. The link appears to work fine in Chrome but in Firefox it stops loading the page faster. If I click refresh, the image appears as it should. Strange but seems like all is fine. The things I would typically be sharing are not photos so it's not really a priority issue for me. 6. I'd love it if S3 drive had a different favicon so I can more easily distinguish it. I'd love it more if it was mounted as a drive letter in my file explorer. πŸ˜‰ Actually, I think what I'd personally use most is if I could right click, go to "send to" and have S3 drive as a destination. I'd have to think about if I'd want it in the main folder or prompt me where to put it. I'd probably choose to have a popup to prompt me where I want it saved within S3 drive. (edited)
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Can I ask a general S3 question? Are there any implications of backing up say, 10000 files at 250kb each or a few larger zipped files? Before I came across S3Drive, I was actually looking for more permanent backup solutions. There are two different approaches that I see and I don't know if one is better than the other. One is storing each file individually and the other is first putting them into "chunks" of X MB/GB first.
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myfrogger
You guys are awesome!! Thanks for all your hard work. I do see that you catch up very quickly πŸ™‚ 1. I'm happy to hear that folder name and file name is on the near roadmap for completion. Usability problem solved πŸ™‚ 2. The S3 presign URL concept is interesting. Can a link be done for a time period shorter than a week? I assume the user would need to have their program opened and some kind of timer to check if any links need to be signed again. Then the shortened link would need to be updated. It's a good idea actually but would want to make sure it's done in a trustless or trust minimized way. Also be careful deploying resources that you have to pay for as then you'd have ongoing costs. It depends what your monetization plan is long term I guess. 3. If the link is presigned, am I right to assume that there is no ability to revoke the sharing? 4. I'm actually not familiar. What is PhotoSync? 5. The link appears to work fine in Chrome but in Firefox it stops loading the page faster. If I click refresh, the image appears as it should. Strange but seems like all is fine. The things I would typically be sharing are not photos so it's not really a priority issue for me. 6. I'd love it if S3 drive had a different favicon so I can more easily distinguish it. I'd love it more if it was mounted as a drive letter in my file explorer. πŸ˜‰ Actually, I think what I'd personally use most is if I could right click, go to "send to" and have S3 drive as a destination. I'd have to think about if I'd want it in the main folder or prompt me where to put it. I'd probably choose to have a popup to prompt me where I want it saved within S3 drive. (edited)
2. Period can be shorter than 7 days. We just didn't implement it yet. 3. That's right, as usual there are ways around, but not all of them feasible for S3Drive. It's possible to revoke credentials and generate a new ones, that would invalidate the link, but that's not practical if user have to do it themselves. The other option is to change the resource / filename, that's also quite impractical. The most feasible option that we've researched so far is connected to E2E encryption. Basically revoking share would mean regenerating sharing key for that resource. That means that presigned link would still be valid for some time, but the adversary would only be able to get the encrypted blob. We're still researching this. 4. This project started in Summer 2022 just as an Android app to backup Photos to S3 - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.photosync.s3 (actually month earlier it was just Backblaze - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.syncsolutions.backblazesync). Lots of research was already done in order to implement them. S3Drive extends that on all file types and all platforms. 5. Yeah it's rough around the edges, but in principle works for the most persistent users. We'll improve that. 6. We didn't even go as far, but the right click context menu (and tray icon with options like auto-startup etc.) is definitely something we would be adding. Thanks for mentioning that. I will make sure it's added to our list. Speaking of favicon, logo and UI in general. That's something that received least amount attention, since we were focused on building all the blocks to validate the concept. Now we keep adding new features and deploying bugfixes / improvements. There will be a moment within a few months at least where we step back and focus on UI simplification and beautifying. Do you have any ideas what favicon would work better? Thanks ! (edited)
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myfrogger
Can I ask a general S3 question? Are there any implications of backing up say, 10000 files at 250kb each or a few larger zipped files? Before I came across S3Drive, I was actually looking for more permanent backup solutions. There are two different approaches that I see and I don't know if one is better than the other. One is storing each file individually and the other is first putting them into "chunks" of X MB/GB first.
It's finding a sweet spot between usability, costs and performance. For instance minimum billable object size for AWS S3 is 128KB, that means that if you store smaller objects you're still paying for the full 128KB. Smaller files means also more requests which will likely degrade performance and increase API costs (e.g. https://www.backblaze.com/b2/b2-transactions-price.html). S3 protocol doesn't support bulk upload (it does support bulk delete though), so 10000 files means at least 10000 PUT requests. On the other hand if you compress files and store them as chunks of X MB/GB, then even if small 250kb file is being changed, you need to replace the whole chunk which also comes at some price. If it's a cold backup that you synchronize from time to time, then having some sort of block storage (https://github.com/archiecobbs/s3backer) / chunks might be preferable way. If you want to conveniently access your data and even have a working copy that you work with, then a standard file approach is preferable even if it comes at some cost. S3 has its limitation, but it's powerful protocol, soon we will be supporting Versioning (https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/version-preview-restore-integration-with-trash). Perhaps over the time S3 protocol will further expand allowing new operations (including bulk ones). If not, we have some ideas how to overcome some of the S3 protocol limitations with a "convenience proxy" that we're also researching, but not everything at once πŸ™‚ (edited)
πŸ™ 1
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myfrogger
You guys are awesome!! Thanks for all your hard work. I do see that you catch up very quickly πŸ™‚ 1. I'm happy to hear that folder name and file name is on the near roadmap for completion. Usability problem solved πŸ™‚ 2. The S3 presign URL concept is interesting. Can a link be done for a time period shorter than a week? I assume the user would need to have their program opened and some kind of timer to check if any links need to be signed again. Then the shortened link would need to be updated. It's a good idea actually but would want to make sure it's done in a trustless or trust minimized way. Also be careful deploying resources that you have to pay for as then you'd have ongoing costs. It depends what your monetization plan is long term I guess. 3. If the link is presigned, am I right to assume that there is no ability to revoke the sharing? 4. I'm actually not familiar. What is PhotoSync? 5. The link appears to work fine in Chrome but in Firefox it stops loading the page faster. If I click refresh, the image appears as it should. Strange but seems like all is fine. The things I would typically be sharing are not photos so it's not really a priority issue for me. 6. I'd love it if S3 drive had a different favicon so I can more easily distinguish it. I'd love it more if it was mounted as a drive letter in my file explorer. πŸ˜‰ Actually, I think what I'd personally use most is if I could right click, go to "send to" and have S3 drive as a destination. I'd have to think about if I'd want it in the main folder or prompt me where to put it. I'd probably choose to have a popup to prompt me where I want it saved within S3 drive. (edited)
The drive letter / mount is something we've already tried and had a working read-only prototype on Linux. https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/file-mount-on-desktop-clients-with-write-support Mac and Linux will likely be supported end of Summer using FUSE driver that we're already tried. With Windows we haven't explored it yet, but there are some ways to do it (https://github.com/winfsp/winfsp). We'll definitely implement it, it's just at this stage it's hard to give us ETA. We might adjust priorities later on depending on the users percentage per platform, but we don't have a clear view / analytics to make that decision just yet. What platform are you using by the way?
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Thank you for the detailed responses. I'm using I use Windows and iPhone. My initial thought with the favicon is the current folder with the letters S3 on it. I'd have to do a bit of thinking and asking around at identifying the target market for this product. I'm not even sure S3Drive is the best name for marketing purposes. I don't dislike it though; just rambling. As far as those coming from Dropbox, Onedrive, etc, etc.... I think that the E2EE/control or own your data is a significant selling point and also the "pay for what you need". I don't know why all these companies have different "packages" when it seems easier to onboard people to a pay-as-you-go model. Apple seems to be the only one that figured it out that millions of people don't care about a $0.99 fee but they do care about $5-10. I think that you could monetize by having your own built in cloud (simply putting everyone's data into your own BackBlaze or Wasabi account). At least then when someone downloads the app, there is a usable setting without any further configuration. Maybe offer X 50gb free storage like everyone else. I remember reading years ago that getting someone to use the app the moment they download it is critical to keeping them as a user. I think you should embrace accepting bitcoin, lightning, and maybe some other crypto payments. Also embrace the community that wants their data private. Don't ask for names, don't log their details, etc. For cards use stripe. Maybe this not a project that you'll monetize but I feel like this could be a full time job, and an opportunity to make a great product that people would pay for. Anyway---I agree with you that you can't do everything at once, and the priorities appear to be ordered in a logical way. Keep up the good work πŸ™‚ I'm happy to be an early user and maybe able to contribute somehow along the way. (edited)
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Just realized there are concerns with sharing data because idiots will share illegal material. Maybe stay out of the business of hosting the data for now. I'm just thinking out loud but I'll leave the above writing there in case anyone finds it helpful.
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myfrogger
Thank you for the detailed responses. I'm using I use Windows and iPhone. My initial thought with the favicon is the current folder with the letters S3 on it. I'd have to do a bit of thinking and asking around at identifying the target market for this product. I'm not even sure S3Drive is the best name for marketing purposes. I don't dislike it though; just rambling. As far as those coming from Dropbox, Onedrive, etc, etc.... I think that the E2EE/control or own your data is a significant selling point and also the "pay for what you need". I don't know why all these companies have different "packages" when it seems easier to onboard people to a pay-as-you-go model. Apple seems to be the only one that figured it out that millions of people don't care about a $0.99 fee but they do care about $5-10. I think that you could monetize by having your own built in cloud (simply putting everyone's data into your own BackBlaze or Wasabi account). At least then when someone downloads the app, there is a usable setting without any further configuration. Maybe offer X 50gb free storage like everyone else. I remember reading years ago that getting someone to use the app the moment they download it is critical to keeping them as a user. I think you should embrace accepting bitcoin, lightning, and maybe some other crypto payments. Also embrace the community that wants their data private. Don't ask for names, don't log their details, etc. For cards use stripe. Maybe this not a project that you'll monetize but I feel like this could be a full time job, and an opportunity to make a great product that people would pay for. Anyway---I agree with you that you can't do everything at once, and the priorities appear to be ordered in a logical way. Keep up the good work πŸ™‚ I'm happy to be an early user and maybe able to contribute somehow along the way. (edited)
@myfrogger You're absolutely spot on. We're researching what cloud we could use or whether we need to build our own one (likely MinIO based). Ideally we would pay predictable amount for the resources and resell it at some margin as a complete solution back to the users. The issue with Wasabi, Backblaze and many other clouds is that we can't control the costs as a business (there are many components) and can't easily specify quota per user account, so we don't bankrupt if one user decides to abuse the S3 credentials. Building own cloud on the other hand is additional chunk of work that we would like to avoid, more importantly it comes with huge responsibility, some legal burden and maintenance costs (infrastructure updates, security fixes, SLA, outages, on-call...). We'd also like to leave a room for power users which would like to use their own S3 back-end, so we're not locking anyone with our ecosystem. ~90-95% users would likely use our default offering, because it's convenient, but if someone would like to set up their own MinIO instance using their NAS or whatever, then go ahead. We'll come back to that, but first priority is to build a stable S3 protocol clients. I would love this to be a full-time gig, at the moment it is a full time volunteering and won't be source of income for long, but that's fine. I am extremely excited building technology which helps people to keep their data private without giving it up to seemingly "free" alternatives. It's quite challenging explaining people that "free" software that they use it's actually not free (they pay by their data being sold and mismanaged), these very same people will say: "I've nothing to hide", they're majority and not a target of our offering. There is still significant community of people who actually do mind protecting their privacy. I would rather stay in that circle. ... and I am glad to have a users like you who open up and give proper feedback. Thank you ! (edited)
πŸš€ 1
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myfrogger
Just realized there are concerns with sharing data because idiots will share illegal material. Maybe stay out of the business of hosting the data for now. I'm just thinking out loud but I'll leave the above writing there in case anyone finds it helpful.
As long as a business provides an easy way for DMCA to take down the copyrighted material I think it should be fine. (edited)
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alisa.algo joined the server. 02/16/2023 4:28 PM
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Hi @alisa.algo Welcome here πŸ™‚
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myfrogger
Hi @alisa.algo Welcome here πŸ™‚
Hey:)
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Since 1.1.1 there is an improved upload performance (using multi-threaded workers), as well as additional functions in the Transfers section. Previously uploading ~100+ files could crash the app depending on the machine. Currently ~1000 files is a piece of cake. We've tested ~11k and except that scrolling the items isn't exactly a smooth experience, it's uploading just fine. It is possible to retry the failed requests with the retry arrow. There are also bulk operation buttons to stop all and delete all items within the tab you're in. (edited)
09:29
09:29
Waiting list
09:30
Failed ones (auto-retry will get there in one of the next releases) (edited)
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Awesome!!! Great work πŸ™‚
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tillerson joined the server. 02/26/2023 10:40 AM
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Hi @tillerson !
10:41
Welcome to our modest community πŸ™‚
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hello
stefanc12 joined the server. 03/01/2023 11:59 PM
stca joined the server. 03/02/2023 12:03 AM
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stefanc12
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Hello, I am trying the photosync for s3 and I'm getting invalid url on the generated access key
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made it work - I had to add https:// in front of it
00:53
Trying S3Drive with the same but cannot connect
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Hi @stca and welcome to our channel. We've recently added the photo & video backup module in our S3Drive app which is now recommended way of interacting with S3 endpoints. If you would like to keep using PhotoSync you're free to do so, however going forwards we're actively expanding S3Drive. Thanks
12:51
Hi @stefanc12 and welcome to our channel ! πŸ‘‹ (edited)
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Hi @s3drive thanks. I've already switched to s3Drive but that one cannot connect to my idrive s3 ... not sure what to do, I think I've tried everything ...
22:21
I'm interested in the premium version with encryption. Quick question: can I also decrypt the files with some standard command or software?
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stca
I'm interested in the premium version with encryption. Quick question: can I also decrypt the files with some standard command or software?
Encryption is compatible with V2 client-side cipher that AWS introduced. I am not aware of CLI that supports it, but it is supported by AWS SDK's, please search table for "Content Encryption: AES/GCM" and "Key Wrap: AESWrap"(https://docs.aws.amazon.com/general/latest/gr/aws_sdk_cryptography.html#crypto_features) which is supported by Java, .NET, Ruby V2, and C++. We haven't published any script or CLI tool yet, but we will provide one as an open-source, so user can always download and decrypt data at their discretion. We haven't prioritized that yet, as due to some limitations of both AES-GCM and AWS approach, we're having problem with implementing encrypted video streams and considering switching to different cipher and/or encryption scheme: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/support-streaming-of-encrypted-videos (edited)
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stca
Hi @s3drive thanks. I've already switched to s3Drive but that one cannot connect to my idrive s3 ... not sure what to do, I think I've tried everything ...
I've tried connecting to iDrive myself and it worked just fine. Do you get any specific error? What endpoint are you using (I got e.g.: https://f4n6.par.idrivee2-46.com) ? Can you please long tap on version number at the bottom of the login screen, so you go to the Logs and perhaps see some error or warning that might render something useful? (edited)
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Multiple issues: (a) can't verify the secret key (the other app has a view button) (b) can't place cursor to add or delete a letter (c) not clear if I need to add the https:// part to the endpoint string
12:25
I get "Failed to authorize"
12:25
same credentials worked on the other app
12:26
endpoint looks similar to yours
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stca
same credentials worked on the other app
Regarding a) We will add such option, thanks for mentioning that. b) That's something we can't easily reproduce. What's your Android version and phone model? c) Both: "https://f4n6.par.idrivee2-46.com" and "f4n6.par.idrivee2-46.com" would behave the same and use secure HTTPS context. Quick question, does the API key that you generate have both: "Read and write" permissions? S3Drive verifies the credentials, by saving a small test file to the bucket.
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For b) I have an Samsung S22 Ultra.
14:33
Android 13
14:33
It is read/write ... Photo sync did save files with same account
14:34
And it also works on syncaware ...
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stca
endpoint looks similar to yours
I've managed to reproduce the "Failed to authorize" issue once: "Default encryption" is enabled for an iDrive bucket. It seems that they've implemented encryption in a way which modifies the ETag / MD5 hashes on the S3 protocol side. S3Drive performs strict ETag validation which is required for not yet released syncing features. After we write an object to iDrive E2, we expect ETag to match content of file that we've sent to the server (file integrity), instead they seem to return ETag of their encrypted blob. We will think of workaround, e.g. by disabling syncing features (and notifying user) if we detect ETag issue instead of preventing user from logging in by displaying: "Failed to authorize", however before it's there the only way is to disable iDrive encryption. https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/workaround-idrive-e2-auth-issue-if-default-encryption-is-used PhotoSync doesn't perform ETag validation, since it's only one-way upload. Technically speaking the iDrive approach isn't correct from an S3 protocol perspective and is unique amongst S3 providers, e.g. Backblaze's encryption works just fine. Thanks for reporting this issue ! (edited)
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there's gonna be a better way to connect to the account with QR code or something like on the web instead of typing all that ... Maybe with a small tool to generate the QR code or something ...
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stca
there's gonna be a better way to connect to the account with QR code or something like on the web instead of typing all that ... Maybe with a small tool to generate the QR code or something ...
Thanks, I know it's indeed painful with 4 details to be provided. There will be improvement coming within a few weeks. We've already implemented QR code auth in our previous app (PhotoSync). The old web client does indeed support that: https://web.syncaware.com (edited)
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stca
there's gonna be a better way to connect to the account with QR code or something like on the web instead of typing all that ... Maybe with a small tool to generate the QR code or something ...
Basically the idea is that desktop or web will display QR codes, which then mobile app will scan and securely (encrypted !) provide the credentials over.
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I've signed in after disabling the idrive default encryption as you've indicated
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13:21
not sure how to transfer a folder?
13:22
is album thumbnail view enabled?
13:22
or is it only for media backup?
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stca
not sure how to transfer a folder?
It's not yet possible, but eventually will be.
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stca
or is it only for media backup?
Initially it's media backup only preview functionality.
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stca
or is it only for media backup?
By saying thumbnail view, you mean grid view?
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can i select which media?
13:23
i.e. camera album ...
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s3drive
By saying thumbnail view, you mean grid view?
yes
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stca
can i select which media?
You can upload: "All" media from select album/albums or "Only new", there is a dialog prompt the moment when album is selected. In next turn we will implement manual mode where you can manually select media to backup (or conversely mark them "fresh" for reupload).
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stca
yes
Yes, we might actually kill the current view, since filenames + list isn't condensed enough for bigger albums. The issue is that on iOS there is no way to reliably get the filename for display anyway, so we'll likely default to thumbnail / grid view. (edited)
13:28
There is an active development on all this, it's all coming. Bear with us please and stay tuned πŸ™‚
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s3drive
Yes, we might actually kill the current view, since filenames + list isn't condensed enough for bigger albums. The issue is that on iOS there is no way to reliably get the filename for display anyway, so we'll likely default to thumbnail / grid view. (edited)
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13:29
after upload preview is not working for me (I have added an encryption key) (edited)
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stca
after upload preview is not working for me (I have added an encryption key) (edited)
Is it a photo or video?
13:31
actually I only have the thumbs folder
13:31
I'll check on idrive
13:32
yup ... only the thumbs folder exists (edited)
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What are your numbers here after backup has finished? Is media that was supposed to be backed up media appearing in: "Backed up" counter?
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it says 2 and 2
13:38
2-2-0
13:38
But I have another issue, in that folder/album I believe I should only have 2 photos
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Great, so when you navigate to Root folder, can you see: Automatic uploads folder?
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when I go in it I see pics I have just received in whatsapp
13:39
Root folder of?
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Basically Top of the Files section.
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there is no no, I don't see that
13:39
but auto upload is not enabled
13:39
I used "Start backup"
13:40
now in the album I see 2 files only
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That's fine, since your numbers claim that media was backed up, it should be there. I am wondering if it has something to do with iDrive read consistency.
13:41
Album tab shall display all pictures. There are two annotations, green (backed up) and white cloud (not backed up yet), no annotation mean media is not selected for backup.
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some strange things are happening ... files appear in the root
13:42
then disappear ...
13:43
the 2 photos show as backed up
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... but have you seen Automatic upload folder at least once?
13:43
I can enable the auto backup to see
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It won't change anything really. It's just poor name of mine, the automatic upload folder is where the backed up media are supposed to appear regardless if it's user clicking "Start backup" or if auto mode is enabled (edited)
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says: app needs to be running, background service will be available soon
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What do you mean that files appear in the root? You mean like just at the first top level in the Files tab? (edited)
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stca
says: app needs to be running, background service will be available soon
That's right, background service is being worked on. PhotoSync had that, we can do the same here.
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in the listing ... a screen refresh or cache issue??
13:47
now they are not there anymore
13:47
I should take a screenshot if it happens again
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That looks to me like hitting different iDrive server every refresh which have different version of cache. We haven't used iDrive actively really.
13:47
Never experienced that with Backblaze for instance.
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could be ...
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I am still worried that Automatic uploads folder isn't displayed, as this is where files are supposed to be uploaded. We will allow overriding that location by user in the Settings, but it's not there yet.
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stca
could be ...
I've found this topic on Reddit, which in general highlights multiple issues that iDrive E2 is having. https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/vyu2c7/comment/iw0pgdx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 One of them 4 months ago: "It’s impossible to access newly created folders" I am not claiming that this is what's happening, as there well may be an issue on our side (we're still beta). Is it possible by any chance for you to switch to e.g. Backblaze or other provider at least temporarily? (edited)
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I suppose it is ... but I am in no hurry
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maybe I can try the MinIO instead ...
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stca
maybe I can try the MinIO instead ...
MinIO is great, however ironically with the default settings using their Docker image we've faced similar listing cache issues (LS command was returning stale objects which were not fetchable via GET method), we have it in our backlog and didn't have chance to investigate since priorities are elsewhere. I guess it must be related to default cache settings which are maybe performance focused. Let's be honest, S3 protocol implementations for a long time weren't suitable for thing like S3Drive, due to consistency issues which were addressed not that long time ago. For AWS it was December 2020: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-s3-update-strong-read-after-write-consistency/
exploit01415 joined the server. 03/07/2023 6:35 PM
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exploit01415
Click to see original message
exploit01415 03/07/2023 6:35 PM
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exploit01415 03/07/2023 6:49 PM
Hello πŸ™‚
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exploit01415 03/07/2023 7:10 PM
19:10
Any idea how to fix this? Encryption is enabled
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Hi @exploit01415, thanks for your post. I assume that's an Android? Can I ask you what's your OS version and phone brand/model? Does it happen for every file during upload? (edited)
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s3drive
Hi @exploit01415, thanks for your post. I assume that's an Android? Can I ask you what's your OS version and phone brand/model? Does it happen for every file during upload? (edited)
exploit01415 03/08/2023 10:30 AM
Galaxy S21 Ultra, Android 13 (edited)
10:30
Yeah since I enabled encryption
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@exploit01415 Thanks, we're fully on this. We've managed to reproduce it on some low-end Samsung with Android 13. I will let you know later today about progress on this. Sorry for the inconvenience !
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s3drive
@exploit01415 Thanks, we're fully on this. We've managed to reproduce it on some low-end Samsung with Android 13. I will let you know later today about progress on this. Sorry for the inconvenience !
exploit01415 03/08/2023 10:37 AM
No worries, I was just trying the app for the first time πŸ™‚ (edited)
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exploit01415
No worries, I was just trying the app for the first time πŸ™‚ (edited)
If you come across something else that's not working for you or it's not clear enough, I'd be more than happy to help.
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exploit01415
Yeah since I enabled encryption
We've addressed this issue in the 1.1.3 release which is currently pending review on the Play Store. I will let you know once it's Live (this usually takes between ~5-12 hours). Thank you very much for reporting this.
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exploit01415
Any idea how to fix this? Encryption is enabled
This issue is now fixed, please update your app version. Thanks ! (edited)
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fortymarlin joined the server. 03/13/2023 11:48 PM
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Hi @fortymarlin, welcome to our little world !
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Keep up the great work Tom! This is turning into a better app every week!
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How do i support this app? Is it for free?
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_shaike
How do i support this app? Is it for free?
App is entirely free. You're supporting us by simply using it, as you would likely report an issue, or perhaps might have some improvement idea. We're working on a sustainable business model, but at the moment we're focused on delivering remaining functionalities and moving it from (beta) to (stable). We'll be offering managed S3 accounts in Q2, but will always leave an option for a user to use their own S3 account. (edited)
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Thanks much
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_shaike
Thanks much
If you like the app, we would appreciate rating our app and/or leaving the review on App/Play Store. I think the idea behind the app is great and fits many uses cases, but we're pretty early and far from being a recognizable solution πŸ™‚
imlogarithm joined the server. 03/16/2023 12:41 AM
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I use StorJ but found that upload/download speeds can sometimes be abyssimal and requests to delete folders with many thousand items fail for no good reasons. I'm considering to move my data to Wasabi, thoughts?
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imlogarithm
I use StorJ but found that upload/download speeds can sometimes be abyssimal and requests to delete folders with many thousand items fail for no good reasons. I'm considering to move my data to Wasabi, thoughts?
@imlogarithm Hi, thanks for joining. There are couple items here. Do you have an encryption enabled and use files bigger than 100MB? If so, then S3Drive uses much slower software encryption for such files which has visible performance effects, we plan to fix this, however since it's a topic of highly security sensitive nature, we're not rushing the decision. These are the roadmap items: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/explore-support-for-xchacha20-poly1305 and https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/support-streaming-of-encrypted-videos which we plan to deliver around Summer 2023. If you upload/download multiple items without encryption enabled or smaller than 100MB and find poor upload/download speeds then switching to different S3 (Wasabi) might help, but only if you're not already maxing out your current internet connection. Deleting item is a different beast. Currently we're not deleting items, but rather "copy" them to trash one by one, and then delete files in the original location. It's not that delete is slow, but the "copy" operation takes time and it's safe to assume that "thousand" files operation will be roughly 1000x slower then a single file. What can help here is to switch to S3 provider/region that has closest proximity to your internet connection, but no matter what results won't be satisfying enough. No worries though, we plan to address this in ~April 2023 by adding support for native S3 versioning: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/version-preview-restore-integration-with-trash so we can actually skip Copy operation... and Delete itself is fast enough. (edited)
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imlogarithm
I use StorJ but found that upload/download speeds can sometimes be abyssimal and requests to delete folders with many thousand items fail for no good reasons. I'm considering to move my data to Wasabi, thoughts?
I've just checked it and it seems that Storj doesn't support object versioning and I didn't find if it's on their radar to have it implemented. On the other hand Wasabi does support it: https://wasabi-support.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001684631-Does-Wasabi-support-versioning-
Yes. The versioning feature with a cloud storage service offers an additional level of protection by providing a means of recovery when customers accidentally overwrite or delete objects. This allo...
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Thanks mate!
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imlogarithm 03/16/2023 3:36 PM
I left a 5 stars review for both apps hope it helps it rank high in search results
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15:36
What is the UI coded in? React native or flutter?
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fortymarlin 03/16/2023 4:30 PM
Hi, which S3 storage would you recommend to connect to?
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fortymarlin
Hi, which S3 storage would you recommend to connect to?
Hi, They all have slightly different pricing models, each of them being suited towards certain workflows. You probably can't go wrong with either Backblaze (PayG but transfer fees) or Wasabi (fixed plan, but no transfer fees). I didn't have technical problems with Scaleway (except some billing issues and requirement of using credit card instead of debit card). If you want fully "own" the data, then you can self-host MinIO, but this would only be cost-effective for bigger datasets or if you can afford setting it up on at your Home/NAS. I probably wouldn't recommend iDrive E2 (lots of technical issues and inconsistent behavior)... and with Storj I need to say I don't exactly know what guarantees they give, but you probably can't go wrong with free ~150GB (UPDATE: They've changed that to 25GB - https://forum.storj.io/t/storj-free-tier-update-for-new-accounts-25-gb-storage/22155) data plan just to try them out. No matter what, I wouldn't recommend using just one destination as the only backup of your data, but similar applies to Dropbox and alike. (edited)
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imlogarithm
I left a 5 stars review for both apps hope it helps it rank high in search results
Thank you, it always helps !
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imlogarithm
What is the UI coded in? React native or flutter?
We're using Flutter and it works really well. All of the logic, networking, encryption is also built using Flutter / Dart... and if something can't be achieved with Flutter, then we call native platform functions. (edited)
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Great choice
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imlogarithm
Great choice
Are you interested in a cross-platform development? There is also other promising project: https://kotlinlang.org/docs/multiplatform.html it wasn't mature enough when we started. EDIT: Apparently it's still in Beta. (edited)
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I have plans to work on kids mobile games but will probably orchestrate instead of code. I have some coding background but never loved coding much.
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imlogarithm
I have plans to work on kids mobile games but will probably orchestrate instead of code. I have some coding background but never loved coding much.
Well, I never loved coding as an isolated activity, but I find it extremely exciting when used as a tool to solve some real life problems. Good luck on your project ! (edited)
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@s3drive you think that Kotlin Multiplatform is mature enough to match Flutter? I couldn't find performance comparisons. It seems like Kotlin would be a good choice as it's a first class citizen for android too so you don't have to learn as many programming languages, but do they have rendering engines as good as flutter? I know flutter just released a new rendering engine for IOS that use metal, and their android engine is pretty good too.
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imlogarithm
@s3drive you think that Kotlin Multiplatform is mature enough to match Flutter? I couldn't find performance comparisons. It seems like Kotlin would be a good choice as it's a first class citizen for android too so you don't have to learn as many programming languages, but do they have rendering engines as good as flutter? I know flutter just released a new rendering engine for IOS that use metal, and their android engine is pretty good too.
I don't think I am educated enough on Kotlin Multiplatform to answer that. I don't think that currently KMM maturity is near enough of Flutter, but specifics probably depends on the project. I think Kotlin has a better future than Dart though. I also liked working with Kotlin more... and the ecosystem is Java compatible, which means you have access to decades of knowledge and different projects. EDIT: It's not exactly that, Kotlin is apparently going into "language on it's own" direction and not necessarily aiming to use JVM (source: https://stackoverflow.com/a/74957737). This slightly alters my argument, still I've seen plenty of tools to migrate Java to Kotlin if you ever needed to port some Java logic. Yes, Flutter recently allows enabling Impeller engine on iOS and Android, previously Skia was used (I am actually not sure if it's not the same engine that KMM uses). To be honest it's not even about Kotlin vs Dart. If you know one language you can pretty easily use another. It's about what libraries, packages you get out of the box in one ecosystem or the other - https://pub.dev/ I think that Flutter ecosystem it's still early, but mature enough for many projects. . Bear in mind that you very often rely on some library which gives you native access to certain platform. These are not quick to build yourself and save you lots of time if you find one. I don't think KMM has many of these libraries, so often you will have to build one yourself in Kotlin and connect it to Swift and Android SDK (in which case you need to know the native language as well) (edited)
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imlogarithm 03/20/2023 1:51 AM
I wonder if Microsoft won't just catch up with their MAUI and they have lots of addons and packages etc... dotnet is pretty solid. I think I prefer the way you can declare your ui in XML and then mode the interactions or something. Not sure yet. Performance probably sucks big time however.
01:51
I jist hate the JVM so much, that and gradle or maven or we... everything Java I dislike.
01:53
Not sure it matters much which stack you pick today as they will all evolve differently so I'd go with the one that feels right to begin with and has the documentation and tools do that I want to do.
daniel_recker_95 joined the server. 03/20/2023 2:13 AM
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imlogarithm
I wonder if Microsoft won't just catch up with their MAUI and they have lots of addons and packages etc... dotnet is pretty solid. I think I prefer the way you can declare your ui in XML and then mode the interactions or something. Not sure yet. Performance probably sucks big time however.
Never had chance to work with C#, but it seems is pretty robust, mature language and for quite a while no longer locked in to Microsoft. My understanding is that Xamarin or MAUI they work in a similar way as React Native, which is you still call native UI components. (On the contrary Flutter uses the rendering engine)... so I don't think that performance will be that badly affected. Speaking of XML UI, I worked with Android and really didn't enjoy it (perhaps the MAUI one is nicer?), but before I tried Jetpack Compose I've introduced Flutter. The nested / React way of defining components is much clearer to me than XML. I never liked Java, it's verboseness, clunkiness and being memory hungry. With Android development I was forced to try it... and Kotlin made the introduction much nicer. After a while Gradle is no longer an issue, as you know the quirks. There are exciting projects like GraalVM which make resource startup costs of Java negligible. You can then reuse your project language on the back-end with huge choice of Reactive back-end frameworks (so far tried Vert.x and liked it). I was amazed by understanding how portable the Java ecosystem is... also I've fixed my previous comment and be aware that Kotlin (at least in KMM) is taking: "language on it's own" path and stepping away from JVM. One thing I've understood a while ago, perfect is the enemy of good. I better start using some technology and learn from it, the constantly try to find the best language / ecosystem, which may actually not exist. Same applies to Flutter, my biggest concern is that Google will simply kill it (https://killedbygoogle.com/), but before that happen I am sure that either there will be nice alternative and/or I will have time&resources to migrate my project elsewhere. After all it's Flutter that initially saved me a lot of time, so if I need to "pay it back" a little later, that's still fine with me. (edited)
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Hi @daniel_recker_95 , welcome to the channel !
polyen joined the server. 03/20/2023 2:03 PM
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Hi @polyen, welcome to our channel !
pairg joined the server. 03/22/2023 8:55 PM
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Hi @pairg, welcome here ! (edited)
zer0r00t joined the server. 03/24/2023 5:23 AM
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Hi @zer0r00t , welcome to our small community !
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zer0r00t
Click to see original message
08:03
Interesting software
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... and it will only get even more interesting with our ambitious 2023 Roadmap - https://s3drive.canny.io
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Nice
08:10
I'm a homelabber so I'd love to host this on my server someday
08:12
If you don't mind me asking, is Sync Solutions a company?
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zer0r00t
I'm a homelabber so I'd love to host this on my server someday
The architecture of the client does require valid S3 endpoint. You can run e.g. MinIO on your end: https://hub.docker.com/r/minio/minio/#! which gives fully S3 compatible API. In such setup it's only S3Drive client on your device hitting your MinIO endpoint which is also in your control.
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s3drive
The architecture of the client does require valid S3 endpoint. You can run e.g. MinIO on your end: https://hub.docker.com/r/minio/minio/#! which gives fully S3 compatible API. In such setup it's only S3Drive client on your device hitting your MinIO endpoint which is also in your control.
Is this also true for the webapp when used with local s3 servers? Or is data proxied through another server?
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zer0r00t
If you don't mind me asking, is Sync Solutions a company?
It's a trade name, we're currently registered as a sole proprietorship, we're pending registration and paperwork to switch to limited company. This will likely be finished around Q2/Q3 2023. It is possible the trade name will change at that point. (edited)
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Cool. Nothing wrong with companies doing FOSS. Just trying to understand the motivations and goals
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zer0r00t
Is this also true for the webapp when used with local s3 servers? Or is data proxied through another server?
Webapp is exactly the same codebase as desktop and mobile clients (thanks to Flutter), so it's hitting the API directly, you can verify that in your browser (right-click + inspect element and see the network tab - XHR requests). There are few exceptions where we might hit some other server (but never for S3 related operations), but we've mentioned that explicitly in our privacy section: https://s3drive.app/privacy
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Hmm
08:22
I see pro features mentioned. Do you see a bitwarden-like business model?
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zer0r00t
Cool. Nothing wrong with companies doing FOSS. Just trying to understand the motivations and goals
Just for you to be aware we're not exactly FOSS. In our setup the clients code is closed, but the back-end protocol (S3) is open, meaning that you can always switch to other S3 client if you're not happy. There are other models on the market. For instance there are multiple companies having their clients open-sourced, but back-end is closed, which has some other advantages, but also disadvantages (vendor lock-in being one of them).
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Oooh
08:25
Yea
08:25
Ok I skimmed the webpage and thought it was FOSS
08:27
So files can be decrypted with or without s3drive am I understanding this correctly?
08:28
Both the encryption and backend are safe from vendor lock-in?
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zer0r00t
I see pro features mentioned. Do you see a bitwarden-like business model?
We've been thinking about sustainable business model for a while. Our plans include hosted S3 accounts, which would include all of the Pro features when you get the data plan. BItwarden business model, we're not there yet, maybe eventually.
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zer0r00t
So files can be decrypted with or without s3drive am I understanding this correctly?
That's right, this is because we're compatible with the AWS FOSS implementation: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/general/latest/gr/aws_sdk_cryptography.html#crypto_features
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That's great. That makes me feel more confident
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zer0r00t
That's great. That makes me feel more confident
In our roadmap we plan to release open source decryption / export tool: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/open-source-data-decryption-export-tool
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Very nice. Reminds me of standard notes
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zer0r00t
Both the encryption and backend are safe from vendor lock-in?
Back-end yes, no vendor lock-in, because we plan to stay compatible with S3. There maybe additional extra features on top of S3 protocol which are not possible to achieve with current S3 (related to e.g. file sharing and atomic rename/copy) in which case we might come up with some optional middle-man.
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So far I see this as a valid replacement to rclone WebDAV serve with rclone's crypt -- for less technical people who are afraid of CLIs
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zer0r00t
Both the encryption and backend are safe from vendor lock-in?
Regarding encryption, there are couple challenges that we face with current AES-256 GCM implementation (mostly related to bigger files and video streams). We have plans to improve that: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/explore-support-for-xchacha20-poly1305 https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/support-streaming-of-encrypted-videos but that still needs more research and there are couple dependencies. No matter what, our encryption standard will remain open and if possible compatible with other tooling.
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zer0r00t
So far I see this as a valid replacement to rclone WebDAV serve with rclone's crypt -- for less technical people who are afraid of CLIs
Yes, but hopefully not only this. I find S3Drive way more convenient tool than rclone for accessing my files or backing up my photos on a day to day basis.... and I am not afraid of CLIs. (edited)
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yes that too of course
08:39
S3 compatible app on android at least, that looks nice is rare
08:39
Even if I don't use encryption, it's still handy to manage a bucket with a GUI
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zer0r00t
S3 compatible app on android at least, that looks nice is rare
Heh, thanks for that. Our design is far from modern expectations, but well, there are other S3 clients which kind of lowered entry bar for us πŸ™‚
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design is not bad at all
08:40
i kinda like it
08:41
on desktop tho, it feels very weird to use a smartphone/tablet-ish UI
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zer0r00t
on desktop tho, it feels very weird to use a smartphone/tablet-ish UI
You're right, on the plus side, this allowed us to release desktop clients early. GUI will be improved, once we get through other items... and we're fully booked for 2023 so far.
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also the taskbar icon imho looks too close to windows explorer icon
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zer0r00t
also the taskbar icon imho looks too close to windows explorer icon
That's a valid point, thanks. Being an Ubuntu user myself didn't have that graphic encoded in my mind.
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@zer0r00t If you have any other questions, concerns I would be glad to help out... and speaking of FOSS you might actually think of reasons behind our decision and it's mostly related to the fact that we try to build a sustainable business. With our open back-end model, OSS clients would simply kill any ways for us to monetize our work. OSS in general has funding issues and there are many examples of that. Companies in order to sell OSS, try to build closed source back-end, vendor lock-in you into their solution and make self-hosting pretty hard (despite code being open source). It's fine to find ways to monetize their work, it's just it's little bit deceptive practice (to claim Free, Open, but being far from it) in my opinion. As with every business, things may or may not work out. We plan to introduce certain safeguard triggers (e.g. if we ever planned to wind down our operations we would then release our work on some open-source license), more on that in our next updates. (edited)
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of course
09:00
all the best
09:01
oh something you might want to look into:
09:01
i use this https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/ at home as my s3 server
An open-source distributed storage service you can self-host to fullfill many needs.
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09:01
s3drive doesn't seem to work with it
09:02
works fine with rclone, arq, cloudberry just fine
09:03
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zer0r00t
Click to see attachment πŸ–ΌοΈ
Thanks, we'll look into that.
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zer0r00t
Click to see attachment πŸ–ΌοΈ
I know I probably ask for too much, but do you have an example endpoint I could use to try it out? If not, no worries we'll have it running and then play around.
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sure
09:06
allow me an hour
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zer0r00t
allow me an hour
Great, thanks that would speed things up on our end. Don't feel rushed though. We're here most of the day anyway. (edited)
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anytime
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zer0r00t
Click to see attachment πŸ–ΌοΈ
I did a quick setup on my local: https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr/documentation/quick-start/ and discovered that the issue is that by default in enforces region: garage... and there is no way to provide region in S3Drive. It seems that we may add additional form field to specify the region.
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zer0r00t
Click to see attachment πŸ–ΌοΈ
The quick fix if you want to use S3Drive is to set the region in toml file like this: s3_region = "us-east-1". We auto-detect region from the endpoint URL and have a way to detect custom region from MinIO.... and if it doesn't work we use the most common default which is us-east-1.
10:16
it is set up as us-east-1 in toml
10:16
sending you my test creds
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zer0r00t
it is set up as us-east-1 in toml
Thanks, got this. In fact there is an issue on our side. The detection logic (pretty stupid regex) incorrectly detects the region from your endpoint. When I've tested Garage locally using just IP addresses it wasn't an issue. I've sent you possible temporary resolution via PM. (edited)
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zer0r00t
I see pro features mentioned. Do you see a bitwarden-like business model?
I think I haven't responded to that properly. We haven't decided exactly, our closest business plans include managed accounts with storage plans instead of selling "Pro" features. We've still left a room for ourselves if we ever decided to sell "Pro" features... and since we wouldn't like to disrupt current early adopters there is the Enrol API mentioned in our Privacy section that I believe you refer to. Realistically speaking, we'll keep certain Pro features always free (E2E encryption, photo backup etc.) to lower the barrier of entry and likely provide some additional Pro extensions and possibly per seat licensing model for companies in the future. We'll certainly stay cautious with changes and we extremely value existing users who contribute by providing valuable feedback. (edited)
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_.slipstream joined the server. 03/24/2023 10:30 PM
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@s3drive working nicely with garage now
22:34
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zer0r00t
@s3drive working nicely with garage now
Thanks for letting me know. Do you mind if I ask how are you finding Garage and did you try any S3 compatible alternatives that is MinIO / Seaweed FS / Ceph or anything like that?
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I did use minio before using garage
16:53
I think I'll be moving back to minio
16:55
Garage store a lot of chunk files which are hard to deal with on ext4
16:55
It takes ages to run ncdu on the data folder
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zer0r00t
Garage store a lot of chunk files which are hard to deal with on ext4
Ah yes, I've seen in their documentation that they actually recommend XFS instead due to possible inode limit issues with EXT4.
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Yea
16:56
I like the CLI tho
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... and it's a single Go binary with less baggage that MinIO already have.
16:57
I would be curious to try SeaweedFS though. (edited)
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I was looking into SeaweedFS today
16:58
Looks very interesting
16:58
I need to read the docs a bit more
.kirausagi joined the server. 03/26/2023 3:24 AM
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Hi @.kirausagi, welcome to our channel !
Exp0rt joined the server. 03/28/2023 5:39 AM
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Hi @Exp0rt, welcome to our small world !
dsdsdsdsdsdsdsds joined the server. 03/30/2023 1:26 AM
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imlogarithm 04/07/2023 2:44 AM
I'd go with whatever option had the easiest backups tbh. I find that setting up an environment is not that hard, having redundancy too, but having good backups isin't that simple.
awkwardlysocial joined the server. 04/07/2023 6:43 PM
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awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:43 PM
Sup people
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Hi @awkwardlysocial, welcome to the channel, how are things?
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s3drive
Hi @awkwardlysocial, welcome to the channel, how are things?
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:44 PM
Good good. Just recently finished college. Now looking to get into a university in Canada
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awkwardlysocial
Good good. Just recently finished college. Now looking to get into a university in Canada
Exciting times. What degree you aiming for? Let me guess... CS? πŸ™‚ (edited)
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s3drive
Exciting times. What degree you aiming for? Let me guess... CS? πŸ™‚ (edited)
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:45 PM
Aahh not really
18:46
I was considering it
18:46
But given my ADHD. I decided to go towards English literature/writing/media etc.
18:46
As I like to be creative
18:47
I am also however, a tech nerd πŸ€“
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Right, so my guess wasn't exactly right. It's just so many people I've talked to are either CS students or converting to IT.
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awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:48 PM
I really did want to
18:48
But I also didn't want to make myself suffer mentally (edited)
18:48
As I've suffered enough 🀷
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Yeah sure. We forget in our society that in the long run mental health wins over any aspect. I also know some people who tried hard to convert to IT for the luxurious pay being the reason one, but ultimately decided it's not for them. (edited)
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awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:50 PM
eg. Due to family pressure, I went with the science department starting from 9th grade to college
18:51
And oh boy, worst mistake of my life
18:51
I was in a mentally dark place. Almost decided to "game over" myself
18:52
I've recovered in the past few months. Life's much better now πŸ’ͺ
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Yep I know that, it's like if someone else decides what you like doing... and noone asks you. Happened a lot around my circles. Sorry to hear that, but I am glad that you've took some steps and recovered. Good luck with your submission in Canada, stay strong ! (edited)
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awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:53 PM
Thanks πŸ‘πŸ»
18:53
Feel like this server isn't promoted enough
18:53
Really good app btw
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Thanks, it's all pretty new and still expanding. We're not doing much of a marketing, little bit overwhelmed by outstanding tech items right now. (edited)
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awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:55 PM
That's alright
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Is there anything in particular I can assist you with?
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awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:55 PM
I've personally done some android development myself
18:56
It can be quite interesting
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Indeed, we've started with Android and decided to expand on all platforms.
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s3drive
Is there anything in particular I can assist you with?
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:57 PM
Oh yeah forgot, I can't seem to be able to delete folders
18:58
It loads for a few moments but the folder persists
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awkwardlysocial
Oh yeah forgot, I can't seem to be able to delete folders
I see, what cloud are you using? We've seen such behaviour with MinIO and iDrive.
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s3drive
I see, what cloud are you using? We've seen such behaviour with MinIO and iDrive.
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 6:59 PM
Storj
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awkwardlysocial
Oh yeah forgot, I can't seem to be able to delete folders
Also, there are lots of improvements that we will be releasing regarding folder operations: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1085780599962349648 "Deleting item is a different beast. Currently we're not deleting items, but rather "copy" them to trash one by one, and then delete files in the original location. It's not that delete is slow, but the "copy" operation takes time and it's safe to assume that "thousand" files operation will be roughly 1000x slower then a single file. What can help here is to switch to S3 provider/region that has closest proximity to your internet connection, but no matter what results won't be satisfying enough. No worries though, we plan to address this in ~April 2023 by adding support for native S3 versioning: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/version-preview-restore-integration-with-trash so we can actually skip Copy operation... and Delete itself is fast enough. " (edited)
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awkwardlysocial
Storj
Thanks for your report. At this stage all I can say is sorry that it doesn't work as expected, we will have a closer look regarding Folder delete and Storj. It's usually some tricky caching behaviour that we've hasn't managed consistently reproduce... but I am sure that we'll eventually get to this. Ultimately we can come up with some compromise, e.g. hide folder for some time after delete. (edited)
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awkwardlysocial
Storj
One question that I have, does it stay like this forever or eventually the folder entry disappears?
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s3drive
Thanks for your report. At this stage all I can say is sorry that it doesn't work as expected, we will have a closer look regarding Folder delete and Storj. It's usually some tricky caching behaviour that we've hasn't managed consistently reproduce... but I am sure that we'll eventually get to this. Ultimately we can come up with some compromise, e.g. hide folder for some time after delete. (edited)
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 7:10 PM
Ah no need to be sorry
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s3drive
One question that I have, does it stay like this forever or eventually the folder entry disappears?
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 7:10 PM
Seems to stay like that
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awkwardlysocial
Ah no need to be sorry
@awkwardlysocial I will let you know once I find out something with Storj, in the meantime was wondering how are you finding other aspects of S3Drive? Is there anything that you don't like / like in particular? It's an early stage and every single feedback is extremely valuable for us. (edited)
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s3drive
@awkwardlysocial I will let you know once I find out something with Storj, in the meantime was wondering how are you finding other aspects of S3Drive? Is there anything that you don't like / like in particular? It's an early stage and every single feedback is extremely valuable for us. (edited)
awkwardlysocial 04/07/2023 7:51 PM
Ability to turn off Trash/Recycle bin would be pretty nice
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19:52
As for the Ui, I would like to see Monet theming.
prematrix joined the server. 04/08/2023 12:37 AM
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Hello
00:37
00:38
Why can't I connect to my iDrive E2?
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Hi @prematrix, this happens when iDrive E2 encryption is enabled. In general they use non-standard approach to reporting object hashes that we rely on. There are some ways around, but we haven't got to that yet. More on that here: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1081247124580204574 and: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/workaround-idrive-e2-auth-issue-if-default-encryption-is-used The recommended path for iDrive E2 is to disable their encryption and enable in-app E2E encryption. (edited)
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Thank you for the response. I will use cryptomator, until the issue is fixed.
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prematrix
Thank you for the response. I will use cryptomator, until the issue is fixed.
Thanks for letting us know. We will definitely have it sorted pretty soon. Stay tuned !
xenthys joined the server. 04/10/2023 10:14 PM
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Hello there! ablobwave The Discord server is hard to join from the app since it opens a webview, I'd recommend opening the invite externally so the Discord application can pick it up, or at least the standard web browser. Trying out the application with MinIO, so far so good, pleased by the rename function that likely performs a copy + delete under the hood. It does what one would expect from an S3 client, no ads either, really liking it. (edited)
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Not sure what the .aa* file and folder are about, but some "don't touch my bucket" parameter would be nice if the app doesn't strictly need them, otherwise that sounds like an additional bucket policy :D EDIT: looks like the file is for some kind of init feature within the app, and one of the two folders is the trash. I've seen the versioning feature request, but the trash folder could be opt-in if possible. (edited)
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Hi @xenthys, welcome to our channel. Thanks for your post. Being relatively new Discord user myself such feedback is extremely useful, thanks ! You're right, "rename" performs a "copy" and then "delete" (but only if "copy" was successful operation.). The .aainit file is our write test, as well as ETag response validation (which is required for not yet released syncing features), as some providers (talking mostly about iDrive E2 with SSE enabled) don't generate valid ETags. BTW. Would you like S3Drive to support read-only mode? Regardless, we will try to improve clarity of this operation, so user feels more confident that we're not doing some shady write/reads. Speaking of Trash itself, likely this week starting on Android first there will be a Settings option to disable Trash feature altogether (which is a soft-delete emulation, but slow and pointless if bucket already supports versioning). Versioning UI with restore options will come little bit later. (edited)
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s3drive
Hi @xenthys, welcome to our channel. Thanks for your post. Being relatively new Discord user myself such feedback is extremely useful, thanks ! You're right, "rename" performs a "copy" and then "delete" (but only if "copy" was successful operation.). The .aainit file is our write test, as well as ETag response validation (which is required for not yet released syncing features), as some providers (talking mostly about iDrive E2 with SSE enabled) don't generate valid ETags. BTW. Would you like S3Drive to support read-only mode? Regardless, we will try to improve clarity of this operation, so user feels more confident that we're not doing some shady write/reads. Speaking of Trash itself, likely this week starting on Android first there will be a Settings option to disable Trash feature altogether (which is a soft-delete emulation, but slow and pointless if bucket already supports versioning). Versioning UI with restore options will come little bit later. (edited)
Thank you for your reply! Let me know if you have any question about Discord, I love to help around. For the .aainit file it's fine, but I'd prefer if the app saved the test results locally then deleted the file. I want to be able to write files so I wouldn't use a read-only mode, and we can always create read-only access keys if we want to be sure that's how the app will behave! I'm very interested by the share link expiry slider or date picker though, I never share for 7 days, it's either a smaller duration or permanent. Cool, I don't mind not having the versioning UI yet, but had to delete my file versions + the trash versions to cleanup my bucket so… yeah, trash is cool but I assume most people who want that have versioning enabled. I assume you already have quite a few buckets on various providers to test your features, but I can provide a MinIO one if it could be of interest. There was a 2nd folder with an HTML page in it, not sure what it was about but same thing I'd say, that's probably the least expected action from an S3 browser… While I audited the actions and indeed didn't find anything malicious, that could get me assassinated by my colleagues if I ever connected a more important bucket to the app. doggokek
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xenthys
Thank you for your reply! Let me know if you have any question about Discord, I love to help around. For the .aainit file it's fine, but I'd prefer if the app saved the test results locally then deleted the file. I want to be able to write files so I wouldn't use a read-only mode, and we can always create read-only access keys if we want to be sure that's how the app will behave! I'm very interested by the share link expiry slider or date picker though, I never share for 7 days, it's either a smaller duration or permanent. Cool, I don't mind not having the versioning UI yet, but had to delete my file versions + the trash versions to cleanup my bucket so… yeah, trash is cool but I assume most people who want that have versioning enabled. I assume you already have quite a few buckets on various providers to test your features, but I can provide a MinIO one if it could be of interest. There was a 2nd folder with an HTML page in it, not sure what it was about but same thing I'd say, that's probably the least expected action from an S3 browser… While I audited the actions and indeed didn't find anything malicious, that could get me assassinated by my colleagues if I ever connected a more important bucket to the app. doggokek
Thanks for your help. Currently sharing uses S3 presigned URL, they're part of the protocol, however the signature validity is limited to 7 days max. The HTML is in fact created when sharing files externally to create the "album" feel. The workflow is that we create "presigned" URL for every resource that you share, then we embed them in the HTML which is itself "presigned". There will be in-app sharing later this year, which will basically open shared resources within the Web app: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/in-app-sharing It will still have to follow the S3 protocol limitations though. We're exploring different ways, so we can generate permanent links and allow users revoking them. There are multiple ways, one way is to create a middle-man (link shortener/alias and presigned links generator) to constantly extend the validity and keep the same URL scheme. The other way is to aim more into closer integration, e.g. with permission management and STS using MinIO we could revoke shared resources, something which isn't possible with pure S3 protocol. We haven't exactly agreed on the best way forwards. Thanks for all your feedback and I am more than happy to hear how are you finding different parts of the app and whether it suits your workflow. Speaking of MinIO, last time when we've tried to test the S3Drive with MinIO we've came across same listing caching issues when folder was deleted with all of its contents. The contents was removed properly, but the folder entry stayed in the s3 ls even though headObject couldn't retrieve it as a valid S3 entry. I am curious if you came across of something similar. (edited)
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Yes, 7 days is the maximum but not the minimum, when I share a file however I'd like to keep using raw presigned URLs without having app-specific features included without me being aware. I'm looking for an S3 browser to use S3 features, if I wanted a fully-featured platform I'd install Nextcloud instead and use S3 as the backend storage, be careful about feature creep! I expect the majority of users who are technical enough to have an S3 bucket to use the app just for a quick file access or upload as well. I haven't encountered any issue with MinIO yet, but I deleted content through the console with their versions when I figured out the trash feature. I know MinIO doesn't immediately update the file list after a create or delete operation, even the console shows an invalid object count if you check too soon after, so maybe that's related?
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While my messages are very opinionated, in the end it remains your application of course, I would never order an independent developer to do what I want, unless we have a paid contract haha
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xenthys
Yes, 7 days is the maximum but not the minimum, when I share a file however I'd like to keep using raw presigned URLs without having app-specific features included without me being aware. I'm looking for an S3 browser to use S3 features, if I wanted a fully-featured platform I'd install Nextcloud instead and use S3 as the backend storage, be careful about feature creep! I expect the majority of users who are technical enough to have an S3 bucket to use the app just for a quick file access or upload as well. I haven't encountered any issue with MinIO yet, but I deleted content through the console with their versions when I figured out the trash feature. I know MinIO doesn't immediately update the file list after a create or delete operation, even the console shows an invalid object count if you check too soon after, so maybe that's related?
We will implement slider to allow providing the minimums. Our aim is to actually hide the S3 complexities and provide the "drive" experience for the general public. Our userbase is mixed. I take your point and will make a note to incorporate raw sharing. Speaking of Nextcloud, yes it's an option, but not anyone wants to set up their server, manage it, take care of updates and security... also if you want Nextcloud to not cost a lost (when e.g. hosted on some VPS)... then actually you need to connect it with some S3 provider to get reasonably priced storage. Our aim is to skip layers like Nextcloud and simply using some client-side magic provide similar experience (and less convoluted than Nextcloud - but that's my opinion) using raw S3. Speaking of caching issues. It's likely what we've experienced with MinIO and was little bit confused, because all other providers (except iDrive) update their listings immediately.
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xenthys
While my messages are very opinionated, in the end it remains your application of course, I would never order an independent developer to do what I want, unless we have a paid contract haha
If we only got more such "opinionated" messages, it would've been much easier to build stuff... and working full-time on this for about a year now without a single paycheck, I wouldn't mind a paid contract πŸ™‚ ... but seriously, it's actually one of the coolest things I've been working on in my 10+ years career and seeing already such positive reception we've no intentions to stop. (edited)
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I see, however you're going to have a hard time implementing a nice drive experience on top of bare S3 buckets, especially if you reduce yourself to the common denominator between the various providers. I guess some kind of "expert mode" would help settle the debate, where you expose raw S3 functions and let the user do whatever without interfering. Yes, Nextcloud was an example, I don't know many people with an S3 bucket who don't already have a way to share files, and most will probably just use OneDrive or similar if they want simplicity. With the single-file installer and compatibility with any shared hosting service, it's not the hardest to use πŸ˜„
10:51
I'd love to be rich enough to offer paid contracts by myself, the company I work at would unfortunately not be interested, our buckets are going to be heavily locked down so even accessing them directly from a company laptop on the internal network would be frowned upon. Welcome to healthcare!
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xenthys
I'd love to be rich enough to offer paid contracts by myself, the company I work at would unfortunately not be interested, our buckets are going to be heavily locked down so even accessing them directly from a company laptop on the internal network would be frowned upon. Welcome to healthcare!
We're also planning some enterprise offerings. Basically S3Drive, locked down within the internal infrastructure with SSO, permission management, audit log and some management tools on top of MinIO (or other solution). Obviously the model would've to be slightly different. We would likely provide management tools as an open-source on some license. I am just thinking loud and this is something we will start work on 2023 Q4 / 2024 Q1 at earliest. Out of curiosity what your company uses for the S3? Is it MinIO, Ceph or some cloud S3? (edited)
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We're moving from Azure Blob storage to AWS S3 directly, so pretty much going from the least to the most compliant S3 implementation :p (edited)
11:00
As for our SSO, it's based on Microsoft so probably not what you would expect for a company fully using AWS as its sole cloud provider.
11:01
I have to say, my main use of S3Drive is to have an S3 app on my phone, the others weren't as appealing, but your vision fully makes sense once we take all platforms into account.
11:08
Regarding licensing, maybe you'd like the Sustainable Use created by n8n: https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n/blob/master/LICENSE.md It's based on the Fair-code software model (https://faircode.io/) which only restricts commercial applications of your software, it's interesting.
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xenthys
I see, however you're going to have a hard time implementing a nice drive experience on top of bare S3 buckets, especially if you reduce yourself to the common denominator between the various providers. I guess some kind of "expert mode" would help settle the debate, where you expose raw S3 functions and let the user do whatever without interfering. Yes, Nextcloud was an example, I don't know many people with an S3 bucket who don't already have a way to share files, and most will probably just use OneDrive or similar if they want simplicity. With the single-file installer and compatibility with any shared hosting service, it's not the hardest to use πŸ˜„
It's indeed a challenge to provide a nice drive experience on top of bare S3. There are multiple missing features, block read/writes, bulk operations, atomic operations. We're not discouraged though, as there are ways around. The beauty of such approach is that we're staying compliant with S3 at all times, so there is no vendor lock-in or proprietary back-end. With some optional tooling/layers we can improve the experience. The other advantages of S3Drive comparing to well-established players is price competitiveness (S3 is just cheap)... and ZK client-side encryption, so you can drop your files anywhere and secure them, so they are private. To be honest... every week/month as we build it we find new ideas that slightly affect our direction and it's just how things are developed.
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Hey, I play Star Citizen, unless your app stays in alpha for a decade you're good doggokek
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xenthys
Regarding licensing, maybe you'd like the Sustainable Use created by n8n: https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n/blob/master/LICENSE.md It's based on the Fair-code software model (https://faircode.io/) which only restricts commercial applications of your software, it's interesting.
Cool, thanks. It's really helpful. We've been studying different open-source licensing and having chance to read lots of horror stories (ElasticSearch, core-js recently ... and couple more) we were not exactly convinced what's the best path to take given that the S3 protocol itself is open and the fact that we don't have the proprietary back-end as a means to protect the IP by making the open-source client useless without back-end (not that we would want to take that route). (edited)
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Well, the horror story for most users is seeing a project moving to another license, no matter from which to which. The model used by n8n has been criticized by pro-FOSS folks, but GitHub stars don't pay rent.
11:15
I find it very interesting because self-hosted people won't have any barrier, even within companies, but they can't offer a SaaS version of your product. That seems to match your vision.
11:17
Your "back-end" would be the layer you plan to use in order to transform an S3 bucket into a drive I assume, but licensing should only be validated with a lawyer anyway.
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xenthys
Your "back-end" would be the layer you plan to use in order to transform an S3 bucket into a drive I assume, but licensing should only be validated with a lawyer anyway.
It's all interesting, thank you. I can imagine FOSS communities not approving such licences, but pragmatic open-source is just unsustainable and we're probably yet to see even more similar licences and more projects using these. (edited)
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xenthys
I find it very interesting because self-hosted people won't have any barrier, even within companies, but they can't offer a SaaS version of your product. That seems to match your vision.
We'll get back to the licensing later this year. Next couple months are about delivering the major roadmap items. By that time we might have a clearer picture and more established userbase.
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The more I think about it… I can't hire you, but would an "expert mode" bounty work? Basically a "gimme bare-bones S3 and don't touch my bucket!!" mode as described above. Another interesting feature would be to be able to set the filename on upload, because rename leaves deleted versions. Or maybe a checkbox to delete the renamed version on versioned buckets? I assume you're going to have a versioning check for the trash feature later, so the idea would be to piggyback on it if it's not too much work. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help of course.
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xenthys
The more I think about it… I can't hire you, but would an "expert mode" bounty work? Basically a "gimme bare-bones S3 and don't touch my bucket!!" mode as described above. Another interesting feature would be to be able to set the filename on upload, because rename leaves deleted versions. Or maybe a checkbox to delete the renamed version on versioned buckets? I assume you're going to have a versioning check for the trash feature later, so the idea would be to piggyback on it if it's not too much work. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help of course.
If bare-bones S3 means, simply disable some convenience features then why not. Rename with old name object version delete is possible. Normally I would be hesitant to implement it, since it's easy to for feature creep to kick in... and it's not sort of feature where one would like to make a mistake in. On the other hand we already have to the delete (after copy) to emulate move. I like the idea to not clutter the bucket. We will have it implemented. (edited)
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Managing versions is going to be annoying when you take compliance mode into account, S3 is a feature creep in itself already haha
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xenthys
Managing versions is going to be annoying when you take compliance mode into account, S3 is a feature creep in itself already haha
Yes, but what's the alternative? πŸ™‚ I love that one: https://xkcd.com/927/
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Indeed, I'm just joking about the fact S3 itself is no longer true to its name when you take every feature into account.
12:12
But even with compliance, worst case scenario is handling a 403 technically speaking, just ensure the error message is clear enough :p
12:13
If I hated the S3 standard, I wouldn't be here πŸ™ƒ
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Basically growing pile of IFs, growing pile of tests... and possible becoming little bit less exciting to work on... but if it's what it takes to stay compatible... well we can still handle it. Well, S3 is far from perfect... what I love about it... it is actually a standard that's broadly accepted. (edited)
12:15
Finally, Compliance mode is a feature with real use-cases, so it's not like this work gets more pleasant with a different standard. One needs to handle 403 regardless of the API. (edited)
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s3drive
Yes, but what's the alternative? πŸ™‚ I love that one: https://xkcd.com/927/
I liked IRC as a chat platform standard, even though authentication and privacy is a mess. This normally makes you think about another XKCD…
12:17
Indeed, and versioning / object locking / compliance are all part of the same mechanism so you can hardly implement one without the others.
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prematrix
Thank you for the response. I will use cryptomator, until the issue is fixed.
Hi @prematrix , it's been addressed in a 1.1.4 Android release which is now live. It will be available on different platforms later this week.
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xenthys
Thank you for your reply! Let me know if you have any question about Discord, I love to help around. For the .aainit file it's fine, but I'd prefer if the app saved the test results locally then deleted the file. I want to be able to write files so I wouldn't use a read-only mode, and we can always create read-only access keys if we want to be sure that's how the app will behave! I'm very interested by the share link expiry slider or date picker though, I never share for 7 days, it's either a smaller duration or permanent. Cool, I don't mind not having the versioning UI yet, but had to delete my file versions + the trash versions to cleanup my bucket so… yeah, trash is cool but I assume most people who want that have versioning enabled. I assume you already have quite a few buckets on various providers to test your features, but I can provide a MinIO one if it could be of interest. There was a 2nd folder with an HTML page in it, not sure what it was about but same thing I'd say, that's probably the least expected action from an S3 browser… While I audited the actions and indeed didn't find anything malicious, that could get me assassinated by my colleagues if I ever connected a more important bucket to the app. doggokek
Disabling Trash in Settings menu is now a thing on Android, since 1.1.4 release.
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stca
For b) I have an Samsung S22 Ultra.
Hi @stca, Since 1.1.4 release on Android, the encrypted iDrive E2 buckets are now supported.
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xenthys
I liked IRC as a chat platform standard, even though authentication and privacy is a mess. This normally makes you think about another XKCD…
Yes, I remember IRC, but I am relatively young and got the internet connection pretty late, by the time I was connected and when lived in Poland, Gadu-Gadu took over the whole country. IRC always reminds me the old Linux days, where you had to compile everything. I believe that many IRC users might be in their mid-50s now πŸ™‚ (edited)
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Well done, downloaded the update and found the option, thanks!
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14:36
There's an unexpectedly high number of younger people on IRC, by curiosity or because some FOSS projects refuse non-FOSS chat platforms, and IRC remains easy to join with web clients.
14:39
Now waiting on the .aainit file being nuked (delete file itself + all its versions) once the init is done and raw presigned URL sharing doggokek
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xenthys
There's an unexpectedly high number of younger people on IRC, by curiosity or because some FOSS projects refuse non-FOSS chat platforms, and IRC remains easy to join with web clients.
Sure, but at the same time there are newer and more exciting protocols. https://matrix.org/ being one of them.
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It's heavier to run and there isn't as much compatibility yet, moderation remains an issue as well. But I agree, we'll eventually get there, in the meantime Discord is fine!
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xenthys
Hello there! ablobwave The Discord server is hard to join from the app since it opens a webview, I'd recommend opening the invite externally so the Discord application can pick it up, or at least the standard web browser. Trying out the application with MinIO, so far so good, pleased by the rename function that likely performs a copy + delete under the hood. It does what one would expect from an S3 client, no ads either, really liking it. (edited)
... forgot to mention that we've also fixed the Discord link with 1.1.4 release. Thank you for reporting this issue.
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Oh nice, I checked and it indeed gets caught by the Discord app, well done and thanks to you for the quick fix!
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xenthys
The more I think about it… I can't hire you, but would an "expert mode" bounty work? Basically a "gimme bare-bones S3 and don't touch my bucket!!" mode as described above. Another interesting feature would be to be able to set the filename on upload, because rename leaves deleted versions. Or maybe a checkbox to delete the renamed version on versioned buckets? I assume you're going to have a versioning check for the trash feature later, so the idea would be to piggyback on it if it's not too much work. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help of course.
I've had a thought about the bare bones presigned URLs. The current "album sharing" allows sharing more than one file/media, as well as allows sharing client-side encrypted content, since HTML includes JS decryption code and there is key injected in the URI (after #). This isn't possible with raw presigned URL. Having said that, we could either default to raw presigned URL if it's a single and unencrypted file share (or provide some configuration option to determine the single unencrypted sharing file mode). The only issue that I have with this approach is, that now we're ending up maintaining two solutions, but if it's what it takes to make the community happy, we'll handle it. (edited)
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I don't represent the community as a whole, but I find sharing a single file from a classic S3 bucket is quite common and what I personally expect to be able to handle from any S3 client. πŸ˜…
20:53
It could be a toggle up to the user, as a "use at your own risk" kind of deal. You already handle presigned URLs, so I assume you'd just return it to the user instead of continuing the whole "setup an album" procedure.
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Given the size of S3Drive community you're significant part of this at this stage πŸ™‚ Fair enough, we'll plan this in our items along with the slider which needs to be done anyway.
blobooh 1
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xenthys
It could be a toggle up to the user, as a "use at your own risk" kind of deal. You already handle presigned URLs, so I assume you'd just return it to the user instead of continuing the whole "setup an album" procedure.
Indeed. Just realised that we actually can't base this purely on fact whether file is encrypted or not, because from a client point of view we don't know that before we headObject and get the envelope AES keys.... so it must be a toggle with some warning. It would then simply return the Blob that's stored on S3, regardless of what's inside. (edited)
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I was thinking about an "advanced features" toggle that wouldn't change the "Share" button's behavior, but add a "Create pre-signed URL" button under it maybe?
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xenthys
I was thinking about an "advanced features" toggle that wouldn't change the "Share" button's behavior, but add a "Create pre-signed URL" button under it maybe?
That's good idea as well. In that case we don't interfere with existing workflow and UI, we simply suplement new advanced feature. I think I like it more.
21:02
Cool, sounds like we've a plan.
iarcanex joined the server. 04/12/2023 4:49 AM
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Hey there! Joined since I had a question or two. Does S3Drive support backing and "syncing" up an external drive? Looking for more a set and forget option, but wasn't too sure.
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@iarcanex Hi ! Not out of the box. The sync modes are closer than ever: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/syncbackup-options-two-way-one-way and there will be nothing stopping you to sync the whole drive letter to the remote location. Having said that it won't be really the best tool to reliably back up your external drive for quite a while and there are some unique challenges (e.g. what if drive letter changes when you reconnect drive, how shall we handle it?) that we haven't even tried solving just yet. You might be better off using tools e.g. Rclone and some custom scripting. (edited)
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screamingintothevoid1 joined the server. 04/12/2023 8:27 PM
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screamingintothevoid1 04/12/2023 8:28 PM
hi! trying to setup the app, but i gett the CORS error. is there a guide for this?
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myfrogger
As an aside, it would be very helpful if there was a button to click to "list buckets" for me to select. Is my bucket formatted properly? This doesn't seem to be the issue though because even if I enter the wrong credentials, I still can't seem to connect to the server.
Hi @myfrogger I hope you're doing well. This is to let you know that long awaited option to list all available buckets that you've suggested will be available today/tomorrow (awaiting release) on Android and will be deployed to other platforms later this week:
20:29
@screamingintothevoid1 Hi and welcome to the channel, what platform are you using? Is it Web? (edited)
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screamingintothevoid1 04/12/2023 8:29 PM
i was using web to try to set it up before i tried to hard on the android app.
20:32
i dont need to use the web app. just android. i guess try that setup with android?
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@screamingintothevoid1 Basically CORS needs to be enabled for bucket which can be done by any non-web client using: "Set up CORS" option which shall return clear message that it succeeded. In principle web client shall be able to some extent detect CORS issue and "Set up CORS" via proxy, but that's pretty experimental and may not work for all browsers consistently. Does your bucket support CORS setting? What S3 provider are you using? Yes if Web didn't work, please try an Android (or other client) first and use: "Set up CORS" to see what happens. (edited)
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screamingintothevoid1
i was using web to try to set it up before i tried to hard on the android app.
Regardless if you manage to get it running. We would extremely appreciate if you could give us some details about your browser, S3 provider and the exact error or screenshot, so we can reproduce it on our side and address this issue. Thanks ! (edited)
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screamingintothevoid1 04/12/2023 8:41 PM
i didnt get it working yet. i will try later. it was supposed to be a short distraction from my AWS training to work on IAM, S3, etc. i'll check it out tomorrow some more.
20:42
i am using AWS, Chrome (latest), S22Ultra, with A13.
20:43
but i will get you more info later. im an SRE. i'll help out as i can
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@screamingintothevoid1 Good luck on your AWS training ! One thing that came to my mind. Your user / IAM needs to have permission to modify bucket settings in order to set up CORS correctly, but the error message (if there is any) on Android shall reflect that. Thanks for the details. If you have any other issue I am glad to help. (edited)
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screamingintothevoid1 04/12/2023 8:44 PM
guess imma learn about CORS. thanks for the tips and ill get back to you
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xenthys
Thank you for your reply! Let me know if you have any question about Discord, I love to help around. For the .aainit file it's fine, but I'd prefer if the app saved the test results locally then deleted the file. I want to be able to write files so I wouldn't use a read-only mode, and we can always create read-only access keys if we want to be sure that's how the app will behave! I'm very interested by the share link expiry slider or date picker though, I never share for 7 days, it's either a smaller duration or permanent. Cool, I don't mind not having the versioning UI yet, but had to delete my file versions + the trash versions to cleanup my bucket so… yeah, trash is cool but I assume most people who want that have versioning enabled. I assume you already have quite a few buckets on various providers to test your features, but I can provide a MinIO one if it could be of interest. There was a 2nd folder with an HTML page in it, not sure what it was about but same thing I'd say, that's probably the least expected action from an S3 browser… While I audited the actions and indeed didn't find anything malicious, that could get me assassinated by my colleagues if I ever connected a more important bucket to the app. doggokek
Hi @xenthys, I can proudly say that we've released version 1.1.5 on Android which includes some of these changes. When verifying bucket we just try to read the usually non-existent key (.s3drive_bucket_read_test) and verify the response instead of trying to write a file. Slider now works, so it's possible to set expiry time shorter than maximum of 7 days. There is an option to use raw preshared URLs. We've also introduced basic Version UI. It is now possible to preview the revisions. In a next update we will allow opening, preview, deleting and restoring to particular version. Thank you for these suggestions, they were great and helped us to validate it all ! πŸ‘ ... and as always we're open for a feedback.
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awkwardlysocial
Ability to turn off Trash/Recycle bin would be pretty nice
Hi @awkwardlysocial, Thanks for this idea. It is now added as a Settings option. It modifies the way the items are deleted to either delete them directly in-place (new hard-deleted behaviour) or move to Trash (previous behaviour).
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myfrogger
As an aside, it would be very helpful if there was a button to click to "list buckets" for me to select. Is my bucket formatted properly? This doesn't seem to be the issue though because even if I enter the wrong credentials, I still can't seem to connect to the server.
This option is now live on Android. Thanks !
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s3drive
Hi @awkwardlysocial, Thanks for this idea. It is now added as a Settings option. It modifies the way the items are deleted to either delete them directly in-place (new hard-deleted behaviour) or move to Trash (previous behaviour).
awkwardlysocial 04/13/2023 5:05 AM
Thank you for adding that feature!
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awkwardlysocial
Thank you for adding that feature!
There will be couple more things coming in as suggested by our other user here. For instance when moving an item we do "copy+delete" to emulate "move". The thing is that with versioned buckets even though the old file was "deleted" it still uses up space as a revision (delete marker). There will be a setting to let user decide whether they want to cleanup or persist version. (edited)
jdave joined the server. 04/19/2023 9:13 PM
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Hi, I am starting to use s3drive with Wasabi an S3 solution. Wasabi bucket is configured as immutable with versioning. Testing the delete option in S3Drive, the file disappears in S3drive when 'deleted' but of'course is not deleted in Wasabi.. but it does not come back in S3Drive.. is there a way to fix that?
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jdave
Click to see original message
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I believe object locking isn't (properly?) supported yet, so it's probably adding a delete marker thus hidden by S3Drive but not "physically" deleted
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22:33
that would require proper version support, which is in progress as far as I know
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Hi @jdave, Thanks for your feedback. If the Delete settings are set as on the attached screenshot, we delete file directly from S3, however we still don't delete the object's versions that were created when file was initially created. In theory we could implement an option to also delete a version during a file delete, but if we were to do it immediately it would slow down the delete operation significantly since there is no way to delete multiple versions in one request. Our immediate plan to address this was to provide list of deleted (yet still versioned) files in the current Trash (which is somewhat legacy option where files landed for users which didn't want to delete file in-place, but didn't have a bucket which supported versioning). What would be your preferred way how S3Drive works? Would allowing deleting versions from the Trash be sufficient for you (at least initially?) In theory we could add a setting where after file is deleted we could mark specific versions to be deleted as well and we could do it asynchronously over the next seconds, but that's little bit more complicated option. In the meantime if this is a showstopper for you, you could perhaps introduce lifecycle policies (which Wasabi supports as well). You could set up to delete "all file versions" after x days since file was deleted initially: https://docs.wasabi.com/docs/lifecycle https://wasabi-support.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360061322811-How-do-I-configure-Object-Lifecycle-Policies-with-Wasabi-#:~:text=Lifecycle%20Policies%20are%20used%20on%20Wasabi%20to%20manage,Lifecycle%20Policy%2C%20please%20see%20our%20documentation%20available%20here. Please let me know how does that sound and if you need my help on setting this up. Thanks ! BTW. Thanks @xenthys for your help as well ! (edited)
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Thank you Tom.. i appreciate the full response.. in my case i want to keep Wasabi immutable and not delete anything even if the user tries, i would love to see that S3Drive recognize that the 'delete' was not successful and continue to show that the file exists, as right now the file is missing from S3drive but does exist in Wasabi. I have flushed the cache and rebuilt the search data, but the files still does not show up in S3drive.
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jdave
Thank you Tom.. i appreciate the full response.. in my case i want to keep Wasabi immutable and not delete anything even if the user tries, i would love to see that S3Drive recognize that the 'delete' was not successful and continue to show that the file exists, as right now the file is missing from S3drive but does exist in Wasabi. I have flushed the cache and rebuilt the search data, but the files still does not show up in S3drive.
We've shifted our focus temporarily for the next day or two to finalize Stage II of versioning capabilities, we're going to play with the Object Lock policies and understand them better and see what we can reliably achieve with S3Drive and potentially release them in a next release in a few days. We'll then extract the remaining improvements for the Stage III which we shall address later this quarter. I might get back to you later today (GMT+2 timezone here) as I'll likely have some questions regarding these policies. I would've thought that they'll already prevent running the DELETE command on the object. (edited)
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Thank you
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jdave
Thank you Tom.. i appreciate the full response.. in my case i want to keep Wasabi immutable and not delete anything even if the user tries, i would love to see that S3Drive recognize that the 'delete' was not successful and continue to show that the file exists, as right now the file is missing from S3drive but does exist in Wasabi. I have flushed the cache and rebuilt the search data, but the files still does not show up in S3drive.
Right, so we checked how it works. Wasabi S3 bucket behaves differently depending if versioning is enabled. If versioning is enabled, then regardless of Compliance / Object Lock settings, it is possible to delete an object. Deleting an object created so called: "Delete marker". It is possible to preview all historical versions and restore to any of them, however it is not possible to delete any version from the system until Retention Time has passed. If versioning is disabled, then deleting an object is not possible, because without versioning enabled it would have to delete the object permanently. In a next release which we shall be able to deploy early next week there will be options to Delete/Restore versions and to preview deleted file versions in Trash. There will be also improvements in terms of error handling, e.g. deleting a version restricted by Compliance Settings is not possible, so it shall render clear 403 / Access Denied error. If things go well, we shall be able to also build a generic: "Versions" view which would show technically all recently changed files in the bucket and would allow to delete specific revision(s). There is also an issue with error reporting in S3Drive when versioning is disabled and Compliance Settings enabled. During delete, file seemingly gets deleted, and disappears from the screen, but when screen gets refreshed the entry persist, this is because currently we're using quiet delete, which ignores delete error from Wasabi. We'll have it fixed. Please find couple screenshots which shows the error reporting (it doesn't exactly work like that in a current S3Drive version, but'll be fixed next week) when trying to delete a version restricted by Compliance Settings. I've created a file, then overwritten it with version 2, then deleted it and then uploaded version 3 (so I can have it displayed again and click on the "Show versions" feature). I've then tried to delete one of the revisions which failed as expected.
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So I was right about delete markers, woooh doggokek
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xenthys
So I was right about delete markers, woooh doggokek
Indeed, thank you guys for supporting this project with valuable feedback !
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xenthys
So I was right about delete markers, woooh doggokek
I knew that we will have to get to this eventually πŸ™‚ ... and we're already finding some versioning implementation differences between providers. E.g. MinIO version restore works differently than Backblaze/Wasabi. There are couple bugs (or features?) when deleting entries that we've found on Backblaze... we'll have to deal somehow with all that... but that's fine πŸ”₯ (edited)
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Ah, as expected indeed, I'm glad S3Drive exists but I'm also glad it's being developed by someone else haha
devOps joined the server. 04/22/2023 4:36 AM
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jdave
Thank you Tom.. i appreciate the full response.. in my case i want to keep Wasabi immutable and not delete anything even if the user tries, i would love to see that S3Drive recognize that the 'delete' was not successful and continue to show that the file exists, as right now the file is missing from S3drive but does exist in Wasabi. I have flushed the cache and rebuilt the search data, but the files still does not show up in S3drive.
Hi @everyone , we've just released a major release (v1.2.0) πŸš€ which extends versioning features, modifies behaviour of copy/rename/move/trash function to seamlessly support versioning and don't duplicate version, also there is an option to restore specific versions or delete object versions to save some space. There is also improved error handling, so in case of an Object Lock there will be an error message and relevant Log which can be viewed by long-tapping the app version number. Versioning capabilities are configurable in the Settings. There is a space usage indicator in the left panel / drawer. There is a new Recent section, which displays all recently modified files. Search function is improved, so the index is built faster and also includes implicit folder search (e.g. if there is a file: folder/file.txt, but folder/ entry doesn't explicitly exists, it is still searchable) There is an option to hide files starting with: . As usual there are couple other performance improvements and bugfixes. We would love to hear how are you finding new changes and if version management during file operations is what you would expect. (edited)
19:28
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Wow
19:29
Good stuff
πŸ‘ 1
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Awesome, will try a bit later but that's really nice on paper!
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The pricing seems really fair
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zer0r00t
The pricing seems really fair
Thanks for the feedback. We try to make it affordable for personal use and if for any reason user is not able to afford Pro, then there is a Basic package which shall be enough for many cases. It's not entirely straightforward for us to come up with fair pricing, as there are some discrepancies between our real expenditures and our motives behind the project. For instance work related to E2E and complexity of Zero Knowledge is about half of the total project R&D, yet we offer E2E for free as we believe that anyone shall be able to receive little bit of privacy regardless if they can afford it or not.
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I believe encryption itself being free but filename being under Pro is a good balance
11:04
Also the fallback perpetual licensing thing is very interesting
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If I was in your position, I would only bill for features that have a recurrent cost while factoring global R&D costs into the final price.
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Is there a timeline as to when the pricing will jump to €14.99? I'd love to purchase but don't exactly need it right now
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Regarding filename encryption, I don't know which cost it would have on your end so I'm quite neutral about it being a pro feature. On one hand, if it has no impact it's a bit disappointing not to have it as part of E2E in general. On the other hand, it doesn't change much as long as contents are encrypted and you need to monetize, so you have to find features that push people to the pro version.
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Reminds me of boxcryptor
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zer0r00t
Is there a timeline as to when the pricing will jump to €14.99? I'd love to purchase but don't exactly need it right now
There is no timeline as such, likely won't be changed for the next few months whilst we build all of the remaining features. We're still deciding about our final price, but it won't be far off from what it is now.
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Filename encryption is the one feature that makes me want to pay for it. So from a business POV it's working
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I want to keep versioning, I believe I'll keep it based on the plans page since i'm using it right now, but morally speaking why not support Tom? πŸ˜„
11:12
If it's supposed to be a pro feature I don't mind paying for it, as simple as that. Giving a discount to early adopter is fine, but I wouldn't straight out retain used pro features.
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xenthys
Regarding filename encryption, I don't know which cost it would have on your end so I'm quite neutral about it being a pro feature. On one hand, if it has no impact it's a bit disappointing not to have it as part of E2E in general. On the other hand, it doesn't change much as long as contents are encrypted and you need to monetize, so you have to find features that push people to the pro version.
It really depends on the perspective. There are no recurring costs once it's built, but it needs to be built first. Same applies to all of the features, yet collectively this app is more than a year of a senior engineering. In other words, since we're not hosting anything (almost, there are some convenience features, CORS proxy etc.) with the self-hosted, there are almost no other costs involved other than development.
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Indeed, I wrote that before seeing that was for self-hosted plans, and didn't correct afterward πŸ˜…
11:16
Having an interesting enough free app for adoption, then interesting enough features to push to pro… tough balance indeed.
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The pro features pre-release is tied to the s3 key ID is that correct?
11:17
So we cannot lose the ID-key pair
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Minor feedback, I would change the following text from: Hide "." files Show all files, including starting with the dot. Hide files starting with the dot character To: Hide dotfiles Show all files, including ones starting with a dot. Hide files starting with the dot character.
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zer0r00t
The pro features pre-release is tied to the s3 key ID is that correct?
We've had to find some way to store the Pro features without an account, so yes we calculate hash based on the S3 key ID (we don't touch the key though). There are other components, e.g. installation ID. We're focusing on building stuff right now instead of complex licensing paywall APIs, eventually we will come up with a reasonable switch plan. We might even ditch the key IDs and simply base it on timestamp, not exactly sure. Costs of giving some licences even for free are way less than our time wasted on some licensing shenanigans... and developing paywalls is way less exciting than building out new features ! (edited)
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xenthys
If it's supposed to be a pro feature I don't mind paying for it, as simple as that. Giving a discount to early adopter is fine, but I wouldn't straight out retain used pro features.
That worked fine with previous subscription model that we were running, but combined with Perpetual licensing it didn't make much sense (to be honest we would have to build specific code to handle that), so current Early Adopters remain all of the features as if they bought it. We might change it, but this will affect future users. We can't break certain promises.
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If you reinstall the app or change your phone, you will lose your pro features. If you have a rooted phone, you can cheat the install date so it's not enough. While these are noble intentions, it will probably bite you in the ass from both sides in the end. Shelling out 10€/year is frankly nothing, unless you're a Turkey resident per example, but still if you need pro features then you supposedly have some infrastructure costs already. I'm putting my money where my mouth is, I just got a pro perpetual license, now I just need to check how to use it! doggokek
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... and thank you guys for this feedback, it's really helpful for me. We're yet to find reasonable model. S3Drive is becoming tool that's used by different people with different use cases, we'll be making lots of adjustments to make most of the people happy.
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Putting a paywall on previously-free features is never recommended, so I get you, but you will always have someone complain about it.
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xenthys
If you reinstall the app or change your phone, you will lose your pro features. If you have a rooted phone, you can cheat the install date so it's not enough. While these are noble intentions, it will probably bite you in the ass from both sides in the end. Shelling out 10€/year is frankly nothing, unless you're a Turkey resident per example, but still if you need pro features then you supposedly have some infrastructure costs already. I'm putting my money where my mouth is, I just got a pro perpetual license, now I just need to check how to use it! doggokek
Thank you for the purchase, it really means a lot to us !
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I'd pay more for a lifetime license with all feature updates guaranteed lol (edited)
11:35
That being said if it stays at 10€/year for life I'm fine with it
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xenthys
I'd pay more for a lifetime license with all feature updates guaranteed lol (edited)
The issue with lifetime that I have personally is defining the "lifetime". There are lots of cloud, VPNs or other products that you buy for approximately 3x the avg yearly subscription. Lifetime usually means lifetime of a company, product not necessarily your lifetime. Users don't like subscriptions and I get it, I don't like them myself. It's just this model allows us to finance development on the fly and make reasonable development decisions. It's easy to overspend: "lifetime" money which in theory shall be equally distributed for the lifetime of the project.
11:40
I would hate to promise: "lifetime", only to shut down the project few years later. EDIT: Don't be worried, because we don't plan doing it and even if it happened, we would make it opensource: https://s3drive.app/faq?open=opensource (edited)
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Yeah I understand no worries, it's not even about the subscription because it's once a year so that's alright, I just hate having to update my card everywhere when it expires. It would be annoying to support SEPA direct debit on your end though, but that would solve my issue :D
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There will be more billing options available (including crypto). I am not a huge fan of Stripe, but it's extremely convenient to start with. SEPA is possible, but someone on our end would have to deal with it manually or we would have to find some partner which gives us nice API.
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I was also thinking about the file sharing expiration slider, and realised it will not fit all use cases if I want to create a URL that expires in 5 minutes or in an hour per example. Having a manual number input with a [(seconds /) minutes / hours / days] selection next to it would be the most granular approach even if it wouldn't look that good. Or 3 sliders, from 0 to 59 for minutes, 0 to 23 for hours, and 0 to 7 days. That would allow sharing for an hour and a half instead of having to put 90 minutes with the number input. Reset the previous sliders to 0 if you set the expiry to 7 days, which would also be the default expiry time like it is now. Having a more granular display could be behind the "Show advanced features" option we talked about, so that wouldn't clutter the interface for all users by default, but remain there if people want it.
11:49
Now that I talked about it, I want raw pre-signed URLs and granular expiry sliders, ugh. How much would it cost to sponsor these features in priority?
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xenthys
Yeah I understand no worries, it's not even about the subscription because it's once a year so that's alright, I just hate having to update my card everywhere when it expires. It would be annoying to support SEPA direct debit on your end though, but that would solve my issue :D
I know that every country have some specifics about payment methods. There are certain providers that you can use which are integrated with many banks, so in principle no SEPA transfer is required, but more like user logging in to their bank account confirming some online payment. I am from Poland and there are Przelewy24, PayU and Blik. I know SOFORT being popular in Germany. Do you use any of these in your country?
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SEPA is convenient, but having dealt with them at my previous job, they're unfortunately a fraud territory I can't recommend. In France we just give an IBAN and swear it's ours, some providers request bank details, but fraudsters easily edit them anyway…
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xenthys
I was also thinking about the file sharing expiration slider, and realised it will not fit all use cases if I want to create a URL that expires in 5 minutes or in an hour per example. Having a manual number input with a [(seconds /) minutes / hours / days] selection next to it would be the most granular approach even if it wouldn't look that good. Or 3 sliders, from 0 to 59 for minutes, 0 to 23 for hours, and 0 to 7 days. That would allow sharing for an hour and a half instead of having to put 90 minutes with the number input. Reset the previous sliders to 0 if you set the expiry to 7 days, which would also be the default expiry time like it is now. Having a more granular display could be behind the "Show advanced features" option we talked about, so that wouldn't clutter the interface for all users by default, but remain there if people want it.
... so basically you would like an easier way to provide relative time for a shorter ranges e.g. few minutes, 30 minutes, 1h 20 etc.? (edited)
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I may or may not have edited one because I potentially wanted to pay for a non-profit's internet box subscription with my personal account, an the provider wanted the bank account to be in the name of the non-profit.
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s3drive
... so basically you would like an easier way to provide relative time for a shorter ranges e.g. few minutes, 30 minutes, 1h 20 etc.? (edited)
Absolutely, and more sliders is the easiest way I can think about to compound time that would please our human brains
11:57
It might be the time to have a #technical channel, a #billing channel, and of course an #off-topic channel for everything else :D
11:58
You could also throw some #support channel into the mix but it might overlap with the others and doesn't feel necessary yet (edited)
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xenthys
It might be the time to have a #technical channel, a #billing channel, and of course an #off-topic channel for everything else :D
That's a good idea, I was hesitant to create these categories, since I periodically do the snapshot of the whole discussion that I embed on website as sort of free SEO / uncategorized FAQ.
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Or just a forum channel with tags, then you can snapshot whichever post is of interest
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I think more channels sounds great.
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therefore only one forum is necessary since you can then filter by tag, which could be Development, Billing, Support… the sky's the limit
12:02
As you prefer, it's your server :p
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I am a Discord noob, I will simply follow your advice πŸ™‚
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Forums allow for multiple discussions in parallel, each of them being its own channel. It'd be nice for feature requests or specific topics I believe
12:05
I'm a former moderator under NDA with Discord to setup servers like Square Enix before the E3 a few years ago, let me know if you have any question πŸ˜„
s3drive started a thread. 04/27/2023 12:07 PM
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xenthys
I'm a former moderator under NDA with Discord to setup servers like Square Enix before the E3 a few years ago, let me know if you have any question πŸ˜„
That's quite an achievement !
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I'm proud to be a volunteer for projects and people I appreciate, but moderators are frequently seen as a necessary evil
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xenthys
I'm proud to be a volunteer for projects and people I appreciate, but moderators are frequently seen as a necessary evil
I guess at certain scale no moderation leads to human nature taking over the channel, herd behavior and all sorts of stuff which is researched by many PhDs.
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Yeah, thanks to 4chan and unmoderated subreddits acting as research grounds haha
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Some people are also unable to act properly within communities, and either get banned all the time or wait until "moderators are asleep" to be active
12:34
The most annoying members are the ones who test the limits of the rules, being annoying without directly breaking them, complaining about being unfairly banned if you ever remove them… they have too much time on their hands, welcome to the Internet I guess ;-;
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xenthys
The most annoying members are the ones who test the limits of the rules, being annoying without directly breaking them, complaining about being unfairly banned if you ever remove them… they have too much time on their hands, welcome to the Internet I guess ;-;
Reminds me of public service auditors, it's just they're pretty useful, as even though annoying to some, they're testing certain freedoms and the knowledge of law by those who enforce it.
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Well, auditors are not doing it to be annoying, some members on the other hand…
13:27
Also, law is written by people who work in that field, it's a real mess and they have to cover every case. Discord server rules written by some dude who had some free time don't really have that requirement, especially if you want members to actually read them ablobsweats
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As long as the released features are stacked as per the FAQ, it's all good
14:50
Question though, what happens if there is a gap between subscriptions? Can I pay for a year, stop paying, then resub when I feel like I need the new feature(s)?
14:52
Or is it more like; keep all features accrued while continuous recurring payments, then those stacked features become permanent?
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If you stop paying I believe your license is still valid for the features that were released until it "expired" to give you only security updates
15:28
Otherwise it wouldn't be called perpetual, and renewing it for a year would certainly update the list of features you're allowed to access
15:31
@s3drive how about just tying the "free pro features" to user accounts created before the end of the beta period? people who care about them can create a free account and be sure to retain them, you will only have to monitor for account sharing on your end, no more fiddling with access keys and all that
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15:32
I assume the account I created and bought the license on is what will enable pro features on the app in the future, as long as I have a profile logged into my managed account
15:35
cool checkmark, way better value than Twitter Blue lol
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+1, users may have to revoke old access keypairs and generate new ones for whatever reason
16:32
A digitally signed text file that the app checks could work
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zer0r00t
Question though, what happens if there is a gap between subscriptions? Can I pay for a year, stop paying, then resub when I feel like I need the new feature(s)?
Yes, you can do that. The moment you resubscribe you will get current Pro features as part of your perpetual license. It's likely that there will be various incentives (e.g. continuity discount) to actually stay. Decision will always be yours though and whatever works for you better.
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xenthys
@s3drive how about just tying the "free pro features" to user accounts created before the end of the beta period? people who care about them can create a free account and be sure to retain them, you will only have to monitor for account sharing on your end, no more fiddling with access keys and all that
Good idea. That seem to be fair compromise (user gets their freebie), but need to formalise this through registration, so we can handle that without too much technical drama. I like that so far.
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xenthys
cool checkmark, way better value than Twitter Blue lol
Thanks goes to Material iconset and to Twitter of course πŸ™‚
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zer0r00t
A digitally signed text file that the app checks could work
Everytime I hear crypto, my heart beats faster πŸ™‚ In theory this could work. Basically some private key hidden behind the API could generate a verifiable token which would be stored on the user's bucket (and likely device for little bit of redundancy) and could be then verified. The issue that I see so far is that not every user would want their bucket to be written to with some "licensing" file. (edited)
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If I have 5 profiles and 3/5 are read-only buckets, where do you store the license? :D
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Clearly solution isn't Web Scale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs (edited)
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Having an S3Drive user account is the easiest, if one profile is connected to a paid or beta account then you're good, if you touch my buckets be warned I'm gonna bite doggokek
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xenthys
Having an S3Drive user account is the easiest, if one profile is connected to a paid or beta account then you're good, if you touch my buckets be warned I'm gonna bite doggokek
You can be proud of forcing us to modify improve our bucket validation method, so it's read only.
17:39
I actually like it, less invasive, but still effective... and allows some weird use cases of bucket read-only access. Win for everyone.
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For granularity you can "just" store a feature_flags int that computes to an array of pro features with bitwise operations, easy on your API and authentication gateway or whatever you do behind the scenes.
17:41
Update the integer for all the active pro accounts every time you add a feature, done stickbug
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xenthys
For granularity you can "just" store a feature_flags int that computes to an array of pro features with bitwise operations, easy on your API and authentication gateway or whatever you do behind the scenes.
Yep, would work, unless we have more features than bitwise on INT allows. Regardless, this is an implementation detail.
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s3drive
I actually like it, less invasive, but still effective... and allows some weird use cases of bucket read-only access. Win for everyone.
Update field type to bigint, done doggokek
17:46
Erm, wrong message reply
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s3drive
I actually like it, less invasive, but still effective... and allows some weird use cases of bucket read-only access. Win for everyone.
Thank you for that, note that writing without explicit user consent could have legal repercussions depending on the buckets and their contents, it's a big no-no for S3 clients even though I understand your position πŸ˜…
shaileshchaudhary joined the server. 04/28/2023 3:41 AM
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Hi @shaileshchaudhary, welcome to the channel ! (edited)
klemer1001 joined the server. 04/29/2023 6:54 AM
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Hi @klemer1001, thank you for joining and welcome to S3Drive πŸ“ community !
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xenthys
Now that I talked about it, I want raw pre-signed URLs and granular expiry sliders, ugh. How much would it cost to sponsor these features in priority?
I think I've missed that comment, we've built the presigned URL option for you as requested and released that 13th of April, please find this announcement: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1095920742182424646 We'll be able to get to Sliders eventually, I've set up the roadmap item just now: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/easier-way-to-set-up-relative-expiry-time-for-shared-links but we're slammed with other priority work. There are lots of stuff to finish before the holiday time where we'll relax for a short while. We're very much open for sponsorships (thanks !), on the other hand given the typical development time costs I don't believe I am able to provide reasonable offer for a single personal contributor. We're getting various feedback and improvements requests, some of them we're addressing on the fly, some of them will have to wait according to our priority list, some of them are not part of our general vision and unless there is shared interest, we'll be handling these via Enterprise package (e.g. https://github.com/s3drive/app/issues/23#issuecomment-1528861909). (edited)
mix9311 joined the server. 04/30/2023 1:15 PM
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s3drive
I think I've missed that comment, we've built the presigned URL option for you as requested and released that 13th of April, please find this announcement: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1095920742182424646 We'll be able to get to Sliders eventually, I've set up the roadmap item just now: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/easier-way-to-set-up-relative-expiry-time-for-shared-links but we're slammed with other priority work. There are lots of stuff to finish before the holiday time where we'll relax for a short while. We're very much open for sponsorships (thanks !), on the other hand given the typical development time costs I don't believe I am able to provide reasonable offer for a single personal contributor. We're getting various feedback and improvements requests, some of them we're addressing on the fly, some of them will have to wait according to our priority list, some of them are not part of our general vision and unless there is shared interest, we'll be handling these via Enterprise package (e.g. https://github.com/s3drive/app/issues/23#issuecomment-1528861909). (edited)
Oh my, you're right, I didn't check since it wasn't mentioned but I can indeed see it! The date picker is just perfect on phone as well so no need for sliders there, last time I checked it was impossible to edit the expiry at all.
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xenthys
Oh my, you're right, I didn't check since it wasn't mentioned but I can indeed see it! The date picker is just perfect on phone as well so no need for sliders there, last time I checked it was impossible to edit the expiry at all.
Oh yeah, that's probably my Discord skills. Great to hear that you like this change.
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s3drive
Oh yeah, that's probably my Discord skills. Great to hear that you like this change.
I probably just missed it, no worries, thanks for letting me know! Unrelated, is it planned to get an official S3Drive logo? I don't know if the folder icon is yours or not, and it could fit any file storage service so it probably lacks a bit of personnality?
14:26
I created the #support where people can post about topical matters, you can see the tags with little emojis which will allow everyone to filter posts once they start to flow in. I also added a "Developer Response" tag you can add to posts if you answer, allowing people to know where you've intervened, that's a common thing on Reddit and I loved the concept but let me know if you'd rather not have that.
14:28
I can also add a "Confirmed" tag for bug reports per example, so you can say whether it's a confirmed bug or not, filtering with those two tags could allow people to immediately see a list of known bugs. EDIT: just added it, costs nothing and can be adapted on the fly if we ever need to change it (edited)
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xenthys
I probably just missed it, no worries, thanks for letting me know! Unrelated, is it planned to get an official S3Drive logo? I don't know if the folder icon is yours or not, and it could fit any file storage service so it probably lacks a bit of personnality?
Definitely, honestly the whole app is missing some nicer UI, branding and logo as you say. We're aware of this and current icon is pretty poor. We weren't making change to UI, being focused on the technology and functionality. I think it all comes down if split for S3Drive is required. We don't really know shall we keep the self-hosted and managed together as one product, one app. We might keep S3Drive as it is, focusing on S3 and have separate managed "Drive" product, this would affect branding, we don't know exactly at this stage what path this all will take. Regardless, S3Drive as it is will receive better logo and better icon πŸ™‚ (edited)
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Cool, I like the profile system and believe it can remain a single app, and people who subscribe to even the lowest drive tier can have pro features imo
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xenthys
Cool, I like the profile system and believe it can remain a single app, and people who subscribe to even the lowest drive tier can have pro features imo
One app is slightly more complex technically, but definite less headache when managing updates, release, pipelines etc. Our goal is to rely on S3 protocol, so having one app actually helps us to stick to this goal and not diverge with some proprietary protocol. The only thing we need to think through is the clear marketing as what S3Drive is, as we're targeting different userbases, each of them having slightly different needs.
14:37
I will get back on the Discord updates later, as I need to leave. Thanks for that ! (edited)
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xenthys
I created the #support where people can post about topical matters, you can see the tags with little emojis which will allow everyone to filter posts once they start to flow in. I also added a "Developer Response" tag you can add to posts if you answer, allowing people to know where you've intervened, that's a common thing on Reddit and I loved the concept but let me know if you'd rather not have that.
Thanks for that. I like it all and it's pretty neat. I think it's a great start for more organized workflow. (edited)
kuwaha7913 joined the server. 05/01/2023 11:22 PM
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Hi @kuwaha7913 and welcome to our little S3 world πŸ‘‹
secrethash joined the server. 05/10/2023 8:16 AM
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secrethash
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09:10
Hey, I used the mobile application for Android. After successful login it shows this error and does not list the objects. MinioError: ListObjectsV2 search parameter maxKeys not implemented (edited)
09:10
I am using Cloudflare's R2 S3 Compatible Object Storage.
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It looks like the app identifies Cloudflare R2 as a MinIO API, can you create a Bug Report post in #support please?
11:05
If I'm right, that would mean S3Drive gets confused about which options are available and which aren't
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xenthys
It looks like the app identifies Cloudflare R2 as a MinIO API, can you create a Bug Report post in #support please?
Sure thing.
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Thanks!
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@everyone We've released new πŸ“ S3Drive version (1.2.5) on Web which uses improved rendering engine. Once it loads once all subsequent loads shall be much quicker and the UI shall be way more responsive. I would be glad to hear if you find it an improvement πŸ”₯ (edited)
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kadircanersahin joined the server. 05/14/2023 11:07 AM
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Hi @kadircanersahin, welcome to our channel πŸ‘‹
roaarr_44 joined the server. 05/18/2023 6:51 PM
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roaarr_44
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Hello, welcome!
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I am trying out S3drive on my iphone. I want to connect to an AWS bucket that I have created in my existing AWS account. (there are multiple buckets there). I can't figure out what I am suppose to enter under 's3-endpoint', and I tried everything. Can someone explain what I need to set up on AWS S3 and what I have to enter in the s3drive app under 's3-endpoint'?
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it should be given to you by AWS, but pretty much the region URL where the bucket is located
04:21
it's formatted as s3.<region>.amazonaws.com
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grahamc1984 joined the server. 05/22/2023 2:56 PM
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grahamc1984
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grahamc1984 05/22/2023 3:06 PM
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Hi @grahamc1984, welcome πŸ‘‹
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grahamc1984 05/23/2023 6:22 AM
Has anyone managed to use the 'Upload folder's menu option ? I select the folder, select USE THIS FOLDER and ALLOW access, nothing then appears to happen. I don't think it is an Android file permission issue as uploads of the individual files in the folder work OK.
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grahamc1984 05/23/2023 7:17 AM
If I select the Documents folder to upload instead of a sub folder it does upload just one file - but it is a file from the images folder not from the Documents folder.
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grahamc1984 05/23/2023 7:33 AM
Selecting the camera images folder gives an exception.
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grahamc1984 05/23/2023 9:27 AM
The Socket exception only happens on Cloud flare R2. But for other providers when I select upload the Documents folder it actually uploads the contents of Images/Documents. So it does look like a file permissions issue.
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grahamc1984 05/23/2023 9:37 AM
Yes the app settings are 'allow access to media only'. I think this can only be extended to all files if the app configuration requests it.
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grahamc1984
Yes the app settings are 'allow access to media only'. I think this can only be extended to all files if the app configuration requests it.
Thanks for reporting this issue. We're trying to find a way to resolve permissions issues for folder upload. In principle access to files inside of the selected directory shouldn't require: "All files permission", however we're facing some limitations of the file related library that we use and we're working to overcome these problems. Yes, we could use, "All files permission", to get seamless access to files, but it's pretty powerful permission to grant and it's also hard to justify use of this permission when releasing app on Google Play.
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grahamc1984
Yes the app settings are 'allow access to media only'. I think this can only be extended to all files if the app configuration requests it.
We will be deploying some improvements to folder upload permissions later today / tomorrow (Release 1.2.10). It will be an improvement over what we have currently, but there are still couple underlying problems we are not able to easily address. Most importantly permissions shall work just fine for all types of files and instead of requesting ALL FILES permission we will be using SAF (https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/providers/document-provider) which is pretty much the only supported/approved of managing files for Android 11+ (edited)
josh_bifrostcloud joined the server. 05/24/2023 5:24 PM
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grahamc1984
Yes the app settings are 'allow access to media only'. I think this can only be extended to all files if the app configuration requests it.
This was successfully deployed. Unfortunately we're not supporting sub-folders (they will be skipped in the process), but we're working on improving that. I was wondering if this resolves your issue at least partially?
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Yes it fixed the problem.
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buzz69. joined the server. 05/28/2023 7:40 PM
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Hi, ive just downloaded the app, its working ok on my android phone - i'm self hosting with xns relayer and its working without ssl (which obviously i don't want to continue with), but with self signed cert on its coming up with handshake error.. any ideas?
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very easy to use btw, great features coming down the road too..
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buzz69.
Hi, ive just downloaded the app, its working ok on my android phone - i'm self hosting with xns relayer and its working without ssl (which obviously i don't want to continue with), but with self signed cert on its coming up with handshake error.. any ideas?
Hi @buzz69., Just a question, did you add the self-signed certificate to your Android device? On Android 13, there is Settings -> Security and privacy -> Other security settings (Credential storage section) -> Install from device storage. There is also a guide, how to export certificate from a URL and import in on Android: https://coderwall.com/p/wv6fpq/add-self-signed-ssl-certificate-to-android-for-browsing#:~:text=Copy%20the.crt%20file%20to%20the%20root%20of%20the,should%20ask%20you%20to%20confirm%20the%20security%20exception.
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Brilliant thanks so much, I'll do this later and see if it works!
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getting this error, this is trying to connect to a bucket on the Windows desktop app (edited)
real_zer0main joined the server. 05/31/2023 12:25 PM
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real_zer0main 05/31/2023 12:31 PM
Hi. I'm trying to connect to my Minio instance from Android S3Drive client but it doesn't work, fails with OS Error: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED: self signed certificate. And I indeed have self-signed certificate but I followed your instructions from https://github.com/s3drive/app/issues/19 (https://proxyman.io/posts/2020-09-29-Install-And-Trust-Self-Signed-Certificate-On-Android-11) and my browser on Andriod recognizes this certificate (if I go to minio browser, my Chrome is fine with the cert). But S3Drive continues to fail with the same error. I'm using the latest version. (edited)
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ethan48
getting this error, this is trying to connect to a bucket on the Windows desktop app (edited)
Hi @ethan48, In order to rule out any platform specific issues can you try to connect using S3Drive using different than Windows platform, e.g. your mobile phone or web? On Windows 11 when I try to connect to this endpoint using some made up credentials I get null response, which is somewhat expected. I would expect to get the SSL related error instead.
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I just tried it on my laptop and on an Android phone and it works perfectly as it should, that's so weird not sure why I was getting an SSL error on that computer I tried it on
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It's so nice to finally have a decent S3 client for mobile
15:49
there were previously no good iOS clients and BucketAnywhere was an option on Android but it wasn't the most up to date, modern or intuitive thing to use and at times was a real pain
πŸ‘ 1
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real_zer0main
Hi. I'm trying to connect to my Minio instance from Android S3Drive client but it doesn't work, fails with OS Error: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED: self signed certificate. And I indeed have self-signed certificate but I followed your instructions from https://github.com/s3drive/app/issues/19 (https://proxyman.io/posts/2020-09-29-Install-And-Trust-Self-Signed-Certificate-On-Android-11) and my browser on Andriod recognizes this certificate (if I go to minio browser, my Chrome is fine with the cert). But S3Drive continues to fail with the same error. I'm using the latest version. (edited)
Hi @real_zer0main, we've deployed some changes as per https://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-config guideline and released patch on Play Store. Can you please update and see whether it works for you? If for some reason there is still an issue in that area we will then test it thoroughly and come up with a fully fledged solution. Thanks !
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s3drive
Hi @real_zer0main, we've deployed some changes as per https://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-config guideline and released patch on Play Store. Can you please update and see whether it works for you? If for some reason there is still an issue in that area we will then test it thoroughly and come up with a fully fledged solution. Thanks !
real_zer0main 06/01/2023 9:13 AM
I updated, same error. Or do I also need to add this xml config file somewhere?
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real_zer0main
I updated, same error. Or do I also need to add this xml config file somewhere?
The file was on our side. Thanks for letting me know. In which case we'll be looking on this and hopefully by the end of this week will have it fixed. What's your Android version by the way? (edited)
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s3drive
The file was on our side. Thanks for letting me know. In which case we'll be looking on this and hopefully by the end of this week will have it fixed. What's your Android version by the way? (edited)
real_zer0main 06/01/2023 9:20 AM
Android 13. I've tried many s3 client apps and none of them worked with self-signed cert.
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real_zer0main
Android 13. I've tried many s3 client apps and none of them worked with self-signed cert.
Cool, so if we have it fixed we'll hopefully stand out πŸ‘
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real_zer0main
Android 13. I've tried many s3 client apps and none of them worked with self-signed cert.
In fact this one isn't easy. I've added the forum item to keep track of this, but this will have to wait until either Flutter team improves the framework or whether actually we have time to implement a workaround: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1114132460989599774
rkafp joined the server. 06/03/2023 6:02 AM
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s3drive
Hi @buzz69., Just a question, did you add the self-signed certificate to your Android device? On Android 13, there is Settings -> Security and privacy -> Other security settings (Credential storage section) -> Install from device storage. There is also a guide, how to export certificate from a URL and import in on Android: https://coderwall.com/p/wv6fpq/add-self-signed-ssl-certificate-to-android-for-browsing#:~:text=Copy%20the.crt%20file%20to%20the%20root%20of%20the,should%20ask%20you%20to%20confirm%20the%20security%20exception.
Hi Tom, i've followed the guide but when i go to upload file in andriod phone its saying private key required to install certificate
11:31
on android 13
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Hmm, that's odd, you shouldn't need the private key at all to trust a certificate, which is the actual point of using certificates… is your Android drunk? blobthonkang
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looks like it.. i'll give it a go on another phone..
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s3drive
In fact this one isn't easy. I've added the forum item to keep track of this, but this will have to wait until either Flutter team improves the framework or whether actually we have time to implement a workaround: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1114132460989599774
real_zer0main 06/03/2023 1:53 PM
Thanks. Yep, this is what I thought based on not having this feature in so many applications. Still, Chrome does it somehow.
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@s3drive hi - using xns backup successfully on iOS and andriod, all working via https website which is great.. I appreciate the media backup is a new feature, just to note the 'backed up assets' no' isn't updating regularly in both iOS and android (but it is working in background i believe..).
its_keiko joined the server. 06/11/2023 6:21 PM
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buzz69.
@s3drive hi - using xns backup successfully on iOS and andriod, all working via https website which is great.. I appreciate the media backup is a new feature, just to note the 'backed up assets' no' isn't updating regularly in both iOS and android (but it is working in background i believe..).
That's great ! Thanks for letting me know. We'll have a look on the counter issue. Speaking of background upload it's not yet implemented. We've already got a working prototype on Android, but we're still finding best ways for background sync on iOS. There will certainly be improvements in that area.
07:37
Hi @its_keiko, welcome to the channel !
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Background will be excellent πŸ‘
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s3drive
Hi @its_keiko, welcome to the channel !
Hello. I'm just looking around thank you 😊
arwen.elrond joined the server. 06/13/2023 5:07 AM
fuwa2tofu joined the server. 06/13/2023 11:27 AM
Deleted User joined the server. 06/18/2023 8:49 PM
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Deleted User 06/18/2023 8:49 PM
hi! just wondering if S3Drive is fully open source? i don't see source code on github
Anon ID Mars joined the server. 06/19/2023 4:23 AM
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Deleted User
hi! just wondering if S3Drive is fully open source? i don't see source code on github
Hi @Deleted User , please find more about that in our FAQ: https://s3drive.app/faq?open=opensource
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Hi @s3drive, you may want to use #changelog for releases :p
13:26
you can also name yourself "Tom" since you'e already singled out as the S3Drive developer hehe
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xenthys
you can also name yourself "Tom" since you'e already singled out as the S3Drive developer hehe
Thanks for that. Can I move this post or rather delete and add again?
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you will have to repost there, Discord doesn't support moving messages
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Cool, it's been a while, I've already forgot the rules and improvements that we've got here ! πŸ™‚
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I don't think anyone follows that channel elsewhere but I published the messages in order, nice thing to do!
13:29
we haven't taken time to talk together yet haha, we should probably do it someday
_verzen_ joined the server. 06/22/2023 5:00 PM
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Hi @_verzen_ πŸ‘‹
quilquip joined the server. 06/24/2023 8:39 AM
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hi @s3drive i've completed a guide for XNS/S3Drive attached. Let me know if you have any comments. thanks
gcasale joined the server. 06/24/2023 6:49 PM
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buzz69.
hi @s3drive i've completed a guide for XNS/S3Drive attached. Let me know if you have any comments. thanks
Hi @buzz69. , cool. I am happy to see S3Drive being positioned closely to one of the S3 providers. That's the whole idea and beauty of S3 protocol. πŸ”₯ Multiple clients (S3Drive being one of them) and multiple back-ends, all speaking πŸ—£οΈ the same language. If you need my input on anything, just let me know !
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Cool, I was just asking in case you wanted me to add anything etc.. if all good then great πŸ‘
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@s3drive also happy to discuss further collaboration in terms of supporting your offer in terms of storage. I can get you storage costs very low or zero in certain configs if you become a provider. Can talk you through how if you are available for a call. Cheers
markus.berthold joined the server. 06/29/2023 6:57 AM
saitama_sensei joined the server. 06/30/2023 3:16 AM
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saitama_sensei 06/30/2023 3:22 AM
S3Drive such an awesome app. Just joined discord server to thank the development team.
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Hi, agreed, I initially did the same :D
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saitama_sensei
S3Drive such an awesome app. Just joined discord server to thank the development team.
Thanks for these kind words. Given an opportunity to ask, is there anything that annoys you with S3Drive or perhaps some aspect you would like us to improve or implement?
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markus.berthold 06/30/2023 10:57 AM
@s3drive where should I report bugs? The followings fails: If a bucket has object lock and versioning enabled and a file already exists, an upload of an updated file (via menu or drag and drop) file fails. In the log the following error is logged:
11:01
The upload was done as the bucket root user.
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markus.berthold 06/30/2023 11:30 AM
Since then no new upload works.
s3drive started a thread. 06/30/2023 11:49 AM
14:55
I don't know what to name it, because support-bugs-requests is too long but there's no reason to have multiple channels for that either
14:55
looks like #general works well due to low activity, but osoner or later we'll have to set topics
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xenthys
😭
It's my fault again. I shouldn't have continued conversation, but start a new one at @support. It would be way easier if I could simply create the thread in a desired location. It's hard to expect that any newcomer will automatically start discussion in a right place. (edited)
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It's fine, I mean, if we want people to follow some kind of rule we should write something in #rules to begin with :D
tamaraa12 joined the server. 07/03/2023 11:13 AM
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s3drive
That's great ! Thanks for letting me know. We'll have a look on the counter issue. Speaking of background upload it's not yet implemented. We've already got a working prototype on Android, but we're still finding best ways for background sync on iOS. There will certainly be improvements in that area.
hi Tom, any news on background backup?
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buzz69.
hi Tom, any news on background backup?
Hi, not much progress on that, as there are couple of outstanding items / E2EE base layers that we've had to finally tackle as it was blocking our other items. End of this month we'll have retrospective internally and will plan remaining year. It also seem that ordering and ZIP downloads are higher on the list: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/implement-order-by-name-size-modified https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/add-support-for-folder-zip-download (edited)
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buzz69.
hi Tom, any news on background backup?
We're also improving upload resilience, error handling and retry methods. πŸ‘· It make sense to apply these improvements before focusing on background upload, so there is a stable base.
JH joined the server. 07/07/2023 11:08 AM
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s3drive
Hi, not much progress on that, as there are couple of outstanding items / E2EE base layers that we've had to finally tackle as it was blocking our other items. End of this month we'll have retrospective internally and will plan remaining year. It also seem that ordering and ZIP downloads are higher on the list: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/implement-order-by-name-size-modified https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/add-support-for-folder-zip-download (edited)
Ok, makes sense, but i will be brutally honest with you, the phone app is not really something people will use without background, the reality is even leaving the app on the upload tends to stop shortly after the phone goes into energy save mode. I appreciate you have other priorities though!
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buzz69.
Ok, makes sense, but i will be brutally honest with you, the phone app is not really something people will use without background, the reality is even leaving the app on the upload tends to stop shortly after the phone goes into energy save mode. I appreciate you have other priorities though!
I somewhat agree with you, but there is so much we can do. Stuff that's being worked applies to all platforms. Platform specific improvements come later. Even if this comes at some cost to Android's userbase, we're still improving platform as a whole. Our statistics prove that each day we're having more and more users (including Android) and getting mostly positive reviews which makes us feel that our technical decisions aren't that bad. We're applying method of quick wins and focusing on things which have the best balance of benefit to the community vs development cost. Background upload is really useful, at the same time it's not entirely cheap from a development point of view, especially that you need to do build it separately on Android and iOS. Sorry if this doesn't satisfy your current needs, we will get to that I can promise.
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I appreciate this is a work in progress and you will have far more insight on what needs doing.. this is just from user perspective. Looking forward to this coming down the line though
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I wanted to manage my buckets on Android, while my use case is niche it does the job for me :p
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xenthys
I wanted to manage my buckets on Android, while my use case is niche it does the job for me :p
There a multiple user bases that use S3Drive with different use cases and needs and we're happy to accommodate most of them. Some people are interested in the encryption, some just want the mobile clients, some are looking to backup their photos, some are looking for general S3 file browser ... or better web interface to S3. Did I miss anything? πŸ™‚ (edited)
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xenthys
I wanted to manage my buckets on Android, while my use case is niche it does the job for me :p
Interestingly, we're getting more requests from companies / hosting providers that are interested in our solution our would like to use S3Drive in their clouds. We're welcoming new business partners and integrations. Just recently we've made a move to stay compatible with Rclone which will further improve and open-up the ecosystem: https://rclone.org/crypt (edited)
havilah. joined the server. 07/11/2023 5:56 AM
sanrinconr joined the server. 07/11/2023 6:31 PM
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Rclone crypt sounds interesting
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zer0r00t
Rclone crypt sounds interesting
It's going to be a major release which we plan to push as early as next week. Stay tuned for Rclone compatibility, filepath encryption, drive mount, multipart upload, web support for bigger files and many smaller yet important improvements. (edited)
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Deleted User joined the server. 07/14/2023 2:25 AM
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@s3drive I cannot update the new release on Android or IOS, says i'm currently v1.3.1 which is no longer supported, go back to delete and download, then comes back with exact same error.
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buzz69.
@s3drive I cannot update the new release on Android or IOS, says i'm currently v1.3.1 which is no longer supported, go back to delete and download, then comes back with exact same error.
We've planned the forced upgrade on all platforms (due to encryption scheme upgrade), however faced some technical issues which combined with the App Store and Google Play processing delays lead us ultimately to this mess. We hope that within few hours Google Play issue will be resolved and subsequently the App Store. I am really sorry for this issue to happen, but with mobile clients we're now at mercy of prompt review time from both Google and Apple side. In the meantime please fallback to desktop or web client, where update was delivered immediately. (edited)
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ok thanks for the info, just checking you were aware really. thanks
sutraman joined the server. 07/22/2023 1:02 PM
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Our iOS release was just approved and shall appear on the App Store within minutes. We're still waiting for the Google Play team to approve our release.
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Must be stressful dealing with the faceless giants…
xbdm joined the server. 07/22/2023 7:33 PM
bituhh joined the server. 07/22/2023 10:35 PM
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that's why we need decentralisation!
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feels like a hopeless dream nowadays
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xenthys
Must be stressful dealing with the faceless giants…
It is indeed. Just to give you an idea, one of the reasons that we've decided to ship macOS app via .DMG from our website is long review times and multiple issues related to the fact that our iOS / macOS app are linked forever (due to https://developer.apple.com/support/universal-purchase/ thing). When we've introduced payments on iOS, our macOS releases were blocked and subject to same scrutiny, rules and reviews even though we didn't want to introduce these for macOS in a same way as for iOS. ... fast forward few months, our .DMG release is currently broken for a few days already, because Apple Notary process stopped working for no apparent reason (screenshot attached). Their official channel says that it's not a technical issue, but instead their Developer Programs Support needs to be contacted: https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/118465 We've contacted them and they replied with generic info how to troubleshoot notarization issues, ignoring the fact that error specifically mention that they need to do something on their side. Without notarized .DMG user needs to explicitly allow the app to run... but that's least of a trouble. Even if app starts it has no access to Keychain, meaning no S3 login data can be stored securely... rendering S3Drive pretty much useless. We've kindly replied and waiting for their action. Not really much we can do. Fun fun fun πŸ™‚
bongosmash 1
storj-derek joined the server. 07/27/2023 8:18 PM
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ooooh storj, hello
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Hi Derek !
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s3drive
It is indeed. Just to give you an idea, one of the reasons that we've decided to ship macOS app via .DMG from our website is long review times and multiple issues related to the fact that our iOS / macOS app are linked forever (due to https://developer.apple.com/support/universal-purchase/ thing). When we've introduced payments on iOS, our macOS releases were blocked and subject to same scrutiny, rules and reviews even though we didn't want to introduce these for macOS in a same way as for iOS. ... fast forward few months, our .DMG release is currently broken for a few days already, because Apple Notary process stopped working for no apparent reason (screenshot attached). Their official channel says that it's not a technical issue, but instead their Developer Programs Support needs to be contacted: https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/118465 We've contacted them and they replied with generic info how to troubleshoot notarization issues, ignoring the fact that error specifically mention that they need to do something on their side. Without notarized .DMG user needs to explicitly allow the app to run... but that's least of a trouble. Even if app starts it has no access to Keychain, meaning no S3 login data can be stored securely... rendering S3Drive pretty much useless. We've kindly replied and waiting for their action. Not really much we can do. Fun fun fun πŸ™‚
In the meantime this have been passed to Senior Support (hello Mari) team which asked yet again to provide full description of the issue in a format they've requested. After a day of silence they've wanted "screenshot" of an error, as if pixels contained more ASCII data than the text I've provided. I am replying as fast I can, but it seems that error: "Team is not yet configured for notarization. Please contact Developer Programs Support" is not that easy to fix on their side. Well... 🍏
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Hi @s3drive
23:59
Nice to see new features
23:59
Possible to get a temporary pro sub to test things out?
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Hi @zer0r00t, thanks ! What platform(s) are you using? I could send you the promo code for Android. Web has no paywall at the moment. Other platforms require registering an account. Since we're closely integrated with Stripe we don't yet have a workflow for "enabling Pro" outside of it, however if you get it, I could offer you a refund once you're done testing.
kakarot1925 joined the server. 07/29/2023 8:39 AM
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Hi @kakarot1925, welcome to S3Drive !
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s3drive
Hi @zer0r00t, thanks ! What platform(s) are you using? I could send you the promo code for Android. Web has no paywall at the moment. Other platforms require registering an account. Since we're closely integrated with Stripe we don't yet have a workflow for "enabling Pro" outside of it, however if you get it, I could offer you a refund once you're done testing.
I do use Android
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zer0r00t
I do use Android
Cool, I've sent you the code, if you need anything just let me know.
chernsha joined the server. 07/29/2023 10:33 AM
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The new rclone stuff is nice
πŸ‘ 1
12:52
Will test large file downloads from browser
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Hmm I cannot seem to access the files using rclone
01:24
What's the correct way to configure?
tamara312_89588 joined the server. 07/30/2023 2:28 AM
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zer0r00t
Hmm I cannot seem to access the files using rclone
If you use mount feature on Desktop you can find the exact commands in the application logs. If file content encryption together with filename encryption is used, then please find below sample config. # Obscure password echo "YourPlaintextPassword" | rclone obscure - # Add it to Rclone config, config file location: `rclone config file` [s3drive_remote] type = s3 provider = Other access_key_id = <access_key_id> secret_access_key = <secret_access_key> endpoint = <endpoint> region = <region> [s3drive_crypt] type = crypt filename_encoding = base64 remote = s3drive_remote:<bucket_name> password = <obscuredPassword> filename_encryption = standard directory_name_encryption = true suffix = none Then you can use: s3drive_crypt as your remote encrypted location. Please note that whilst we support both encrypted and unencrypted files in the same location, Rclone doesn't seem to like the mix and won't display existing unencrypted files for the encrypted remote. In such case it's better to either keep everything encrypted globally or have dedicate paths with encrypted-only or unencrypted-only files. (edited)
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morethanevil joined the server. 07/31/2023 6:40 AM
rbhr joined the server. 07/31/2023 9:10 AM
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rbhr
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rbhr
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 9:53 AM
09:53
Hi πŸ™‚
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just on the encryption theme, i don't know what the process is so this might seem a newbie question, but i'm assuming if you encrypt and access your bucket on a mobile device, then goto the desktop and use the same pw etc and try and view the mobile encrypted data you can do that? ie the key to decrypt is with the id and pw so is interchangeable between devices?
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 9:54 AM
I have a question about the pro version.. I bought it via Playstore and now I wanted to know, how I can connect the desktop app to it?
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buzz69.
just on the encryption theme, i don't know what the process is so this might seem a newbie question, but i'm assuming if you encrypt and access your bucket on a mobile device, then goto the desktop and use the same pw etc and try and view the mobile encrypted data you can do that? ie the key to decrypt is with the id and pw so is interchangeable between devices?
Yes
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morethanevil
I have a question about the pro version.. I bought it via Playstore and now I wanted to know, how I can connect the desktop app to it?
Play store only unlocks android app
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 10:49 AM
Okay so I can not create an account in the app with pro enabled and link it to desktop app?
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morethanevil
I have a question about the pro version.. I bought it via Playstore and now I wanted to know, how I can connect the desktop app to it?
Hi and thank you for supporting us. It seems you've bought the Pro just on Android. If you need Pro working on all devices you would need to register an account and buy it through our website. When you use that account on any device it will obtain the license from our server and enable you the Pro. For iOS/Android, we as a developer were forced to use respective in-app payments, by default that's assigned to your Apple/Google account and it's not visible on other S3Drive clients. We haven't implemented any propagation mechanism and weren't sure about the exact approach. Speaking of how you manage credentials between devices, at the moment they need to be manually copied over, but we're looking to improve that: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/qr-code-credentials-exchange If you're not happy with your purchase, I could make an exception and we could switch the "plans" over.
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morethanevil
Okay so I can not create an account in the app with pro enabled and link it to desktop app?
It may work like that in the future, but that's not the case yet... and even if it was, the price would have to be different as technically you would buy lifetime version on all devices. The difference is that on our website we sell perpetual fallback license, whereas on iOS/Google we're forced (EDIT: well there are also subscriptions, but there isn't concept of perpetual fallback license - https://s3drive.app/faq?q=perpetual as such) to sell the lifetime with their 15% cut. (edited)
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 10:57 AM
Thanks for the explanation, I will wait for QR Code feature, it is the easiest way atm. I got a warning after executing the installer from windows defender.
10:58
For the Linux version Flatpak would be nicer than appimage, because it is updateable
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morethanevil
Thanks for the explanation, I will wait for QR Code feature, it is the easiest way atm. I got a warning after executing the installer from windows defender.
Microsoft implements some heuristic mechanism to flag the executable if not enough people used the package. We've recently switched location of where we host our packages to Github release: https://github.com/s3drive/app/releases It might go away eventually, we're also thinking of buying "trusted certificate" from some provider, which should mitigate these warnings sooner. Alternatively you can use MSIX package, but we update it rarely due to pretty crappy experience with Microsoft Store: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/s3drive-cloud-storage/9NX2DN9Q37NS (edited)
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 11:02 AM
Ahh cool, please link the store app on github too πŸ™‚
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morethanevil
For the Linux version Flatpak would be nicer than appimage, because it is updateable
Flatpak is pending: https://github.com/flathub/flathub/pull/4364 however there is some licensing stuff we're not sure about and didn't have time to do the legal research. It will come probably in a few weeks. (edited)
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 11:03 AM
Flatpak is as great as the store app. They can selfupdate, so it is easier to manage versions. You can be listed on flathub too
11:03
= more users πŸ˜„
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morethanevil
Flatpak is as great as the store app. They can selfupdate, so it is easier to manage versions. You can be listed on flathub too
Yes, we think the same. It's just there are two ways the "proprietary" packages can be distributed and the technical approach is quite different. One way or another, it will appear on Flathub. As you say more users and pretty convenient to distribute.
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 11:07 AM
I installed the store app, works perfect without warnings. Should be the prefered method for installing, and exe for people who don't like the store
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morethanevil
I installed the store app, works perfect without warnings. Should be the prefered method for installing, and exe for people who don't like the store
Point taken. We'll have it updated, as the version is quite old.
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morethanevil
I installed the store app, works perfect without warnings. Should be the prefered method for installing, and exe for people who don't like the store
Just to give you an idea, how we love this process. This is the first hand experience trying to login to dev account:
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 11:16 AM
πŸ˜…
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After clearing cookies different one. Sorry, I've just had to vent πŸ™‚
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morethanevil 07/31/2023 11:18 AM
If it don't works as expected, than add a hint about the warning from the installer. A notice is better than a surprise i think πŸ€”
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morethanevil 08/01/2023 8:49 PM
Just hot the new update on Android, thanks 😁 I will try out ☺️
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 6:36 AM
Update works well so far, but I don't get the E2EE running. I set a new crypt in rclone, with only one password, since s3drive does not support 2 passwords. I set filenames and directory names to encrypt too. Then I added the bucket to the app and activated the encryption with the same password. I get access, but folders and filesnames stay encrypted. Did I miss something? Then I saw that my other buckets are missing in the app, after I added the encrypted one. The profiles got overwritten. Securitysettings should be moved to bucket settings, since they only apply to the current bucket. It is a little confusing at first. Dark mode and dotfiles are appwide settings.
06:40
Steps to reproduce on the missing profiles: I already had unecnrypted buckets. I added another one and set encrypted with password from rclone. Since it did not work, I tried to toggle off and on again to set the password again (Maybe I mistyped) and then the other buckets were gone
06:41
Import / Export settings would be great in this case πŸ˜„
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morethanevil
Update works well so far, but I don't get the E2EE running. I set a new crypt in rclone, with only one password, since s3drive does not support 2 passwords. I set filenames and directory names to encrypt too. Then I added the bucket to the app and activated the encryption with the same password. I get access, but folders and filesnames stay encrypted. Did I miss something? Then I saw that my other buckets are missing in the app, after I added the encrypted one. The profiles got overwritten. Securitysettings should be moved to bucket settings, since they only apply to the current bucket. It is a little confusing at first. Dark mode and dotfiles are appwide settings.
Thanks for your input. Please find the other post with sample Rclone config: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1135157727216279585 For filename encryption to work, please make sure that these two landed in your settings: filename_encoding = base64 suffix = none By default the Rclone's encoding is base32: https://github.com/rclone/rclone/blob/88c72d1f4de94a5db75e6b685efdbe525adf70b8/backend/crypt/crypt.go#L140 unless overriden by the config creator.
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morethanevil
Steps to reproduce on the missing profiles: I already had unecnrypted buckets. I added another one and set encrypted with password from rclone. Since it did not work, I tried to toggle off and on again to set the password again (Maybe I mistyped) and then the other buckets were gone
In principle this shouldn't happen, the E2EE settings regardless of UI are applied per S3 credentials separately. If your other credentials are lost, well it sounds like we may've screwed up. I am going to reproduce it. Is this Android?
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morethanevil
Import / Export settings would be great in this case πŸ˜„
It will definitely come soon.
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morethanevil
Update works well so far, but I don't get the E2EE running. I set a new crypt in rclone, with only one password, since s3drive does not support 2 passwords. I set filenames and directory names to encrypt too. Then I added the bucket to the app and activated the encryption with the same password. I get access, but folders and filesnames stay encrypted. Did I miss something? Then I saw that my other buckets are missing in the app, after I added the encrypted one. The profiles got overwritten. Securitysettings should be moved to bucket settings, since they only apply to the current bucket. It is a little confusing at first. Dark mode and dotfiles are appwide settings.
For the 2nd password, I've just added this item: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/support-2nd-rclone-crypt-password Rclone support is still "hot" and our aim was to deliver MVP with contents, filepath encryption and drive mount. We also hope that we'll be able to influence Rclone crypt improvements first, as it would affect the end derived key for the file encryption: https://github.com/rclone/rclone/issues/7192 (edited)
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morethanevil
Steps to reproduce on the missing profiles: I already had unecnrypted buckets. I added another one and set encrypted with password from rclone. Since it did not work, I tried to toggle off and on again to set the password again (Maybe I mistyped) and then the other buckets were gone
When you say: "Since it did not work", at the moment when you enable/disable filename encryption and go back to the listing, you need to explicitly refresh it on the S3Drive side in order for changes to be applied to your existing already loaded listing. This will get improved as well, so it's less confusing. (edited)
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s3drive
Thanks for your input. Please find the other post with sample Rclone config: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1135157727216279585 For filename encryption to work, please make sure that these two landed in your settings: filename_encoding = base64 suffix = none By default the Rclone's encoding is base32: https://github.com/rclone/rclone/blob/88c72d1f4de94a5db75e6b685efdbe525adf70b8/backend/crypt/crypt.go#L140 unless overriden by the config creator.
morethanevil 08/02/2023 9:34 AM
It works now, second notice was the hint from the app to encode the password in base64 using https://www.base64encode.org and then enter the password as base64, not plaintext. Is there a possibilty to enter a plain password, which is then calculated in base64?
Encode to Base64 format or decode from it with various advanced options. Our site has an easy to use online tool to convert your data.
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s3drive
In principle this shouldn't happen, the E2EE settings regardless of UI are applied per S3 credentials separately. If your other credentials are lost, well it sounds like we may've screwed up. I am going to reproduce it. Is this Android?
morethanevil 08/02/2023 9:34 AM
Yes Android Playstore release from yesterday
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s3drive
For the 2nd password, I've just added this item: https://s3drive.canny.io/feature-requests/p/support-2nd-rclone-crypt-password Rclone support is still "hot" and our aim was to deliver MVP with contents, filepath encryption and drive mount. We also hope that we'll be able to influence Rclone crypt improvements first, as it would affect the end derived key for the file encryption: https://github.com/rclone/rclone/issues/7192 (edited)
morethanevil 08/02/2023 9:35 AM
One password is okay for the beginning, it works now. Maybe a quickstart guide with screenshots would be nice, so people can reproduce
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morethanevil
It works now, second notice was the hint from the app to encode the password in base64 using https://www.base64encode.org and then enter the password as base64, not plaintext. Is there a possibilty to enter a plain password, which is then calculated in base64?
Yes, please click: "Start" instead of "Existing key (base64)". The existing key is legacy option from previous AES-GCM encryption. It will work for Rclone if you properly encode your password, but it's mostly to satisfy previous user password if they want to decrypt files encrypted using legacy encryption.
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morethanevil
One password is okay for the beginning, it works now. Maybe a quickstart guide with screenshots would be nice, so people can reproduce
We're working on some documentation pages and tutorials using: https://squidfunk.github.io/mkdocs-material/ It wasn't our priority when features API wasn't exactly stable, but now things are getting final shape.
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s3drive
Yes, please click: "Start" instead of "Existing key (base64)". The existing key is legacy option from previous AES-GCM encryption. It will work for Rclone if you properly encode your password, but it's mostly to satisfy previous user password if they want to decrypt files encrypted using legacy encryption.
morethanevil 08/02/2023 9:37 AM
I thought start would setup a new password and encryption. This is why i used existing πŸ˜„
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s3drive
Thanks for your input. Please find the other post with sample Rclone config: https://discord.com/channels/1069654792902815845/1069654792902815848/1135157727216279585 For filename encryption to work, please make sure that these two landed in your settings: filename_encoding = base64 suffix = none By default the Rclone's encoding is base32: https://github.com/rclone/rclone/blob/88c72d1f4de94a5db75e6b685efdbe525adf70b8/backend/crypt/crypt.go#L140 unless overriden by the config creator.
BTW. I am wondering in the end if you had to set Base64 encoding (in the Rclone config) explicitly or was it already set by the Rclone's config creator? (edited)
zev_averbach joined the server. 08/02/2023 10:06 AM
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Welcome @zev_averbach πŸ‘‹ (edited)
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s3drive
BTW. I am wondering in the end if you had to set Base64 encoding (in the Rclone config) explicitly or was it already set by the Rclone's config creator? (edited)
morethanevil 08/02/2023 10:29 AM
The config creator uses base32 as default, as you said before. It only shows options if you say yes to the advanced configuration when creating the config file
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 10:41 AM
Just ran the configuration assistant
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morethanevil
Just ran the configuration assistant
Great, so indeed possible.
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morethanevil
Steps to reproduce on the missing profiles: I already had unecnrypted buckets. I added another one and set encrypted with password from rclone. Since it did not work, I tried to toggle off and on again to set the password again (Maybe I mistyped) and then the other buckets were gone
There is a concurrency issue combined with a bug in library that we use: https://pub.dev/packages/flutter_secure_storage. When setting E2E password, we run the key derivation: https://rclone.org/crypt/#key-derivation which takes some xxx ms. When user taps/clicks on password confirmation, more than once, this all starts over and chances are it will clean up the other credentials. We need to apply quick workaround first, so we have time to properly fix this in the underlying library. (edited)
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s3drive
There is a concurrency issue combined with a bug in library that we use: https://pub.dev/packages/flutter_secure_storage. When setting E2E password, we run the key derivation: https://rclone.org/crypt/#key-derivation which takes some xxx ms. When user taps/clicks on password confirmation, more than once, this all starts over and chances are it will clean up the other credentials. We need to apply quick workaround first, so we have time to properly fix this in the underlying library. (edited)
morethanevil 08/02/2023 10:48 AM
I will setup the buckets again and start with the encrypted one πŸ˜„
10:49
But it is great that you found the bug, so a workaround or fix can be made
10:53
I wanted to use my backups a better way than just rclone via sftp. So I learned about MinIO with Versioning and so on... It is a little tricky to bind a user to a bucket but I found a solution for this. Then I wanted to use S3 on android too, but there were no good apps. Mostly they only work with AWS, your app was the first one which worked and has not a UI from the 1990. Now with the encryption and the app, I am able to restore files and Folders without copy rclone.conf over, than run a long mounting and hoping to get my file
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morethanevil
I wanted to use my backups a better way than just rclone via sftp. So I learned about MinIO with Versioning and so on... It is a little tricky to bind a user to a bucket but I found a solution for this. Then I wanted to use S3 on android too, but there were no good apps. Mostly they only work with AWS, your app was the first one which worked and has not a UI from the 1990. Now with the encryption and the app, I am able to restore files and Folders without copy rclone.conf over, than run a long mounting and hoping to get my file
Great to hear, I am amazed to see that there are so many different user stories with S3Drive. Speaking of "bind a user to a bucket", is it something you would like to share more about? Is it MinIO specific or something we could help with S3Drive as well?
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:00 AM
It is for MinIO only, the user managment is aweful there πŸ˜„
11:00
Every user with read write can create and delete every bucket.
11:00
Useful ACLs are missing
11:00
But it is possible via JSON Format to bind a user to one bucket, I was looking around last night and finally found a solution in a blogpost
11:01
Minio is a really cool opensource project which democratizes cloud storage. The feature that I love most about it is S3 compatibility which means that you ca...
11:01
{ "Version": "2012-10-17", "Statement": [ { "Action": [ "s3:ListBucket", "s3:PutObject", "s3:GetObject", "s3:DeleteObject" ], "Effect": "Allow", "Resource": [ "arn:aws:s3:::BUCKET-NAME/*", "arn:aws:s3:::BUCKET-NAME" ], "Sid": "Description" } ] }
11:01
Please copy from the blog, not discord πŸ˜„
11:01
Discord always screws up
11:02
As for S3 Drive it could check the permissions from the user and do an autodiscovery for the buckets. Then the user could select the ones to have in the app
11:03
The only thing to do would be setup the passwords for encrypted buckets
11:03
Serverside encryption is aweful too in minio, you need a kms πŸ™ƒ
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morethanevil
It is for MinIO only, the user managment is aweful there πŸ˜„
I see, I believe Minio's goal was to build a replacement for AWS S3, with all of the IAM / KMS clunky, but enterprise-ready stuff
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morethanevil
As for S3 Drive it could check the permissions from the user and do an autodiscovery for the buckets. Then the user could select the ones to have in the app
On the S3 login screen you can select single bucket manually, but autodiscovery sounds also interesting. Technically we could ask user (dialog) and import all buckets as separate profiles (or perhaps there is a neater way to manage it). (edited)
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:05 AM
A policy generator for the json files would be cool from the devs... selecvt user, select bucket, select ACL...
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s3drive
On the S3 login screen you can select single bucket manually, but autodiscovery sounds also interesting. Technically we could ask user (dialog) and import all buckets as separate profiles (or perhaps there is a neater way to manage it). (edited)
morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:06 AM
If you use more than 5 buckets it is a little work to add them all, and retype the credentials everytime πŸ˜„
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morethanevil
If you use more than 5 buckets it is a little work to add them all, and retype the credentials everytime πŸ˜„
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:12 AM
Thanks ☺️ I upvoted
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if you want a self-service MinIO policy: { "Version": "2012-10-17", "Statement": [ { "Effect": "Allow", "Action": [ "s3:*" ], "Resource": [ "arn:aws:s3:::${aws:username}" ] }, { "Effect": "Allow", "Action": [ "s3:*" ], "Resource": [ "arn:aws:s3:::${aws:username}/*" ] } ] }
11:13
that's what I always add to any MinIO instance I configure, full control over your own bucket that's your username
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:20 AM
And it only allows the user to use his own buckets?
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only a single bucket that is their own username
11:42
they can even delete it or create it if it doesn't exist
11:44
you can always replace ${aws:username} by anything you want, be it a variable or a fixed bucket name, there unfortunately isn't any group name variable
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:45 AM
So the first aws:username means the username of the user and the second one is for the bucket? I am not much into the policy thing, the docs are not very userfriendly πŸ˜…
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no, both time it's the bucket name
11:45
the policy can be assigned to either a user or a group
11:46
in my case I have a users group to which I assign the selfservice policy, then I add whoever I want to the users group and they'll be able to manage their very own bucket
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:46 AM
Okay so the only difference to the other would be, that your json provides full access to the bucket, including deletion and creation
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it can be simplified a lot actually, I kept the resources separate but you can merge them
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xenthys
you can always replace ${aws:username} by anything you want, be it a variable or a fixed bucket name, there unfortunately isn't any group name variable
morethanevil 08/02/2023 11:47 AM
That's cool ☝🏻 One policy for a group and then just add users
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{ "Version": "2012-10-17", "Statement": [ { "Effect": "Allow", "Action": [ "s3:*" ], "Resource": [ "arn:aws:s3:::${aws:username}", "arn:aws:s3:::${aws:username}/*" ] } ] }
11:48
by default I don't merge them because the first resource is the bucket itself, while the other is for its content
11:51
I also had a "public-ro" and a "public-rw" policy, useful if you want all users to be able to access a common bucket but only allow a subgroup to write there
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morethanevil
Okay so the only difference to the other would be, that your json provides full access to the bucket, including deletion and creation
yeah, I'm afraid the one you sent doesn't allow multiparts or versions usage, it also allows users to set policies on their buckets if they want to allow other users to access it, or make a directory public
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:04 PM
I will try this after work, thank you 😺
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xenthys
if you want a self-service MinIO policy: { "Version": "2012-10-17", "Statement": [ { "Effect": "Allow", "Action": [ "s3:*" ], "Resource": [ "arn:aws:s3:::${aws:username}" ] }, { "Effect": "Allow", "Action": [ "s3:*" ], "Resource": [ "arn:aws:s3:::${aws:username}/*" ] } ] }
morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:04 PM
Username needs to be replaced with an existing bucket? How do I use this with groups?
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no, that one can be used as-is
12:05
MinIO will interpolate the variable itself with the username of whichever user performs the API call
12:06
the policy has the exact same effect whether it's assigned to a group to which your user belongs, or to the user directly (edited)
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:15 PM
Okay create a policy "selfmanagment" and add users to it, then they can manage only themselfs Can they create more than one bucket for themself or only just one with their username as mentioned in policy?
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just the one in the policy, what isn't explicitly allowed is denied
12:22
it's however better for most users to have only one bucket then create directories in it
12:23
and if you need two buckets to separate pro vs perso for example, then maybe two accounts is better
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:23 PM
Okay but this is okay One bucket fir one user You helped me more in an hour, than the docs the whole week 😁 I will write this to my wiki and make a Post on Lemmy and Reddit. I am surely not the only one steuggeling with this
12:23
Thanks 🌞
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I found the docs rather helpful, but they're aimed at very technical and specific needs instead of being adapted for standard use cases, they aren't a tutorial
12:25
you're welcome!
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:44 PM
The standard cases would be most users, so a policy generator would be cool 😁
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xenthys
you're welcome!
morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:45 PM
I will mention you in the postings if you like. Or you could post it yourself in the minio subreddit. Most people will then find it via search engines
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it's fine, I no longer contribute on Reddit because I can't really stand the platform nor its users anymore
12:46
I'm no longer giving free content to Reddit, and I have better things to do than argue with redditors about my own use cases
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 12:54 PM
Understandable I prefer Lemmy, I really love it by now πŸ₯°
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morethanevil 08/02/2023 10:32 PM
Just did a few things, I tried the policy and it works great, thanks again
22:32
Next step was to write a "quick" tutorial for rclone with minio and s3drive
22:33
@s3drive Please review my guide and add it to your FAQ / Wiki / whatever. So users can see how it works. The guide is in my cryptpad here:
22:34
You can use my screenshots too, they are not case sensetive, it was a vm
22:35
Nextcloud link will be available 3 days (automatic deletion)
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morethanevil
@s3drive Please review my guide and add it to your FAQ / Wiki / whatever. So users can see how it works. The guide is in my cryptpad here:
That's great, thanks for your work. Before we're done with MkDocs, we could add that our Github and reference back from the website. In any case the required format would be MD. I don't really want to put any burden on you, but would it be possible for you to prepare it in the MD format? Please find the e.g. instruction that we have for Backblaze: https://github.com/s3drive/app/blob/master/INITIAL_SETUP.md and corresponding raw MD: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/s3drive/app/master/INITIAL_SETUP.md The images could be placed in the: https://github.com/s3drive/app/tree/master/resources/images perhaps it would make sense to create a specific folder for the instruction. If you're happy with that approach. please fork: https://github.com/s3drive/app and create the pull request to the repo.
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s3drive
That's great, thanks for your work. Before we're done with MkDocs, we could add that our Github and reference back from the website. In any case the required format would be MD. I don't really want to put any burden on you, but would it be possible for you to prepare it in the MD format? Please find the e.g. instruction that we have for Backblaze: https://github.com/s3drive/app/blob/master/INITIAL_SETUP.md and corresponding raw MD: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/s3drive/app/master/INITIAL_SETUP.md The images could be placed in the: https://github.com/s3drive/app/tree/master/resources/images perhaps it would make sense to create a specific folder for the instruction. If you're happy with that approach. please fork: https://github.com/s3drive/app and create the pull request to the repo.
morethanevil 08/03/2023 7:01 AM
Okay I fork and add everything in there in MD. GitHub has a great preview and editor 😊
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morethanevil 08/03/2023 7:49 AM
Pull request is done πŸ™‚
alex_50852 joined the server. 08/03/2023 9:33 AM
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morethanevil
Okay I fork and add everything in there in MD. GitHub has a great preview and editor 😊
Thanks for the article. I've moderated it a bit, fixed typos, casing, added some headings / warnings and then moved location within the repo: https://github.com/s3drive/app/commit/93c8b5dd5da32eb44e5b3143e5833962e376384b It landed here: https://github.com/s3drive/app/blob/master/RCLONE_SETUP.md
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morethanevil 08/03/2023 4:54 PM
Glad I could help a little bit. Typos etc were to be expected. I am not a native speaker πŸ˜…
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morethanevil
Glad I could help a little bit. Typos etc were to be expected. I am not a native speaker πŸ˜…
No worries, I am sure that native speakers make typos as well πŸ˜‰
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morethanevil 08/03/2023 4:57 PM
😁
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@s3drive I was thinking about creating a green Contributor role, it isn't much but still a nice way to recognize individuals who go out of their way to help the project out, what do you think about it?
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xenthys
@s3drive I was thinking about creating a green Contributor role, it isn't much but still a nice way to recognize individuals who go out of their way to help the project out, what do you think about it?
I like that. It seems that Github displays that if there is a pull request merged into repo, certainly we should have something like that on Discord. (edited)
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Good, I'll do that then
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xenthys
Good, I'll do that then
Feel free to add yourself then, you've helped already a lot ! πŸ™‚
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Maybe later 😊
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morethanevil 08/03/2023 6:37 PM
Issues don't count anymore 🫀 I read you need to have your profil public in your settings πŸ€”
helios6509 joined the server. 08/04/2023 11:49 AM
redsolver joined the server. 08/04/2023 12:19 PM
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Hi πŸ‘‹
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helios6509
Click to see original message
17:23
lol this thing
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Welcome, Helios, we hope you've brought sunshine (edited)
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morethanevil 08/05/2023 5:15 AM
Sunshine would nice 🌞
05:15
I found a little bug and opened an issue on GitHub ☺️
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@morethanevil Thanks, we will get to that next week. Backup module wasn't looked after for quite a while awaiting crucial changes in order to make background upload possible.
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I cannot subscribe to this, it tells me my card was declined... Would be nice to have other payment options like iDEAL or Paysafecard :/
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helios6509
I cannot subscribe to this, it tells me my card was declined... Would be nice to have other payment options like iDEAL or Paysafecard :/
Hi @helios6509, sorry that you face these issues, we use Stripe to handle the payments and don't have exactly full control over the card decline criteria. Since iDEAL is supported by Stripe I am going to have a look if that's something I can enable. In the meantime, all I can do is to ask you to try again or using different card. I've also PM'd you with a payment link which may help your transaction to pass through. Thanks !
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helios6509
I cannot subscribe to this, it tells me my card was declined... Would be nice to have other payment options like iDEAL or Paysafecard :/
Thank you for your suggestion, iDEAL is now enabled. If you have any troubles with the payment or S3Drive feel free to reach out to me directly. (edited)
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s3drive
Thank you for your suggestion, iDEAL is now enabled. If you have any troubles with the payment or S3Drive feel free to reach out to me directly. (edited)
Thanks!
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Hey @s3drive any chance we will get S3Drive in Linux as a Flatpak?
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helios6509
Hey @s3drive any chance we will get S3Drive in Linux as a Flatpak?
Yes, this is a work in progress (https://github.com/flathub/flathub/pull/4364), there were couple challenges that we've mostly solved and likely within couple next weeks it shall be live on Flathub.
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helios6509
Hey @s3drive any chance we will get S3Drive in Linux as a Flatpak?
In the meantime on top of: AppImage you can find deb package in the releases: https://github.com/s3drive/app/releases if that's any use for you.
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morethanevil 08/06/2023 6:54 PM
Tried the new update. Passwort-Manager works fine, thanks 🐱
18:54
But this keeps popping up everytime I go back to the bucket 😁
18:55
Hint: you already got 5 stars ☺️
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